heartstopper season 3 ep 5-8: the horny half

We made it through the saddest parts, and now we get to gush over happier moments. We get Michael, talks of uni, a musical number, and so so many makeout sessions. 

TW/CW: eating disorders, self harm, mental illness

Please rate & review and reach out to us on socials for any thoughts because we have plenty to share.

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Theme Song by Patrick Dunnevant, (https://www.youtube.com/c/AcappellaVGM)
Artwork by Dawn Wheeler (https://www.instagram.com/wool_and_stone)

Chapters

• 0:00 intro
• 3:03 episode 5 winter
• 29:30 episode 6 body
• 51:24 episode 7 together
• 1:11:42 episode 8 apart
• 1:39:14 an underrated duo
• 1:40:44 season 3 reception & fun facts
• 1:51:07 predictions
• 1:54:49 love for alice, joe & kit
• 1:57:52 outro

Transcript

[get home from school turn on my tv who are these friends staring right bac at me now that we're older] 

Hi, I'm Amanda.

And I'm Jessica and this is 90s Babies Nostalgia where two 90s babies are having some fun.

Just to be clear, we're not sponsored by nor affiliated with any anything that we talk about ever. Not the actors, the IP, the streaming services, nothing. We're just a couple of goofs who like talking about TV. And today, the TV that we were talking about is Heartstopper Season 3, part 2. If you haven't listened to our previous episode, go ahead and do that. We've already covered episodes 1 through 4, the sad half. Now we've made it to episodes 5 through 8, the horny half. That's right, we're getting a little bit lighter, a little bit brighter, so go have your cry and then come celebrate, okay?

Yes, yes. And before we get started, I have another heartstopper question to pose. And I want to know outside of like the main couples in the cast, who is your favorite duo in season three? And you could say a single character.

you said duo

But duo is what I want to hear.

Like a dynamic.

Yep.

Yeah. So I guess for me, I think it's not just season three, but it develops in season three even more so is probably Tara and Nick, which I know we have notes on later. Like I think that they have a really great friendship. So I think that's probably my favorite dynamic, although I i did very much enjoy Michael coming in, and not just his dynamic with Tori, but his dynamic with Charlie, like that was a fun duo.

Yes, yeah, I agree. My answer is the same. I was going to say Tara and Nick.

I figured, because I saw that's a note of yours later on.

Yeah, there are a lot of duos that like Tao and Nick's relationship grow a lot in this season. But yeah, I would say my favorite that saw a lot of growth was Tara and Nick. But yes, Michael is a great addition, which we'll get into.

Charlie and Isaac also have a good a good relationship, a good dynamic. i like

Honestly, Darcy and her grandmother, that actually probably is the best answer and their grandmother.

Yes. And on that note, we did, if you didn't catch it last episode, Darcy is now using they-them pronouns as a character. We were using she-her for the storyline where they are not using they-them, but now we will be using they-them moving forward. I have so many thoughts lately about pronouns, but I, we don't, that's not, not that this isn't the time nor place, but we don't have enough time for it. So Heartstopper, episode five.

Yes, winter.

We get an additional character in this episode that is Oliver Spring, played by Jensen Clayton. And this is truly put in here for all of you who have read the graphic novels, because if you have, you know that Charlie and Tori have a younger brother, Oliver, who's substantially younger than Charlie. And so in this one, he came in as like a cousin.

It's a very, very small role. If you are just watching the series, you probably were like, who? But for all the graphic novel readers. In this episode, we start out, it is Christmas morning and Tori crawls into bed with Charlie and they both are just dreading the day, dreading family coming over. Obviously, Charlie has the big hurdle of eating a holiday meal with a big group of family. And this is appropriate because the day does not go so hot. Charlie's mom is very, very stressed about hosting and their grandparents and cousins are like intrusive and not sensitive and like borderline inappropriate. And after comments are made multiple times, Charlie kind of separates himself as like, I need a drink. And his mom kind of is just like suck it up is the attitude that she has, like make it through the day. And so Charlie wants to leave to go to Nick's. He doesn't want to be there anymore. And so Tori tries to get him to stay because she's like, you're going to leave me all alone to deal with this. And he does. And he walks over to Nick's and meets Nick's new pug that he got for Christmas Henry and his aunt and uncle. And we see Charlie have a much, much better time at Nick's house. And eventually Tori shows up as well because she also needs to escape. she also mentions to Charlie, like, you know, we should go home, I think mom might be ready to apologize. And so they go home together and things turn around a little bit.

Tao and Elle are apparently spending Christmas together because they don't know personal boundaries 

Correct

and they're making out and Tao goes to kind of grope Elle a bit and Elle pulls away. clearly uncomfortable and they have to go outside for a walk and then later Elle explains to Tao that being touched there made her it just brought all of her dysphoria back. Since Christmas sucked they're like do-over is New Year's and well it is because it's a freaking house party. I don't even know who's hosting I think it might be Harry Green which is kind of funny.

Yeah.

And the whole friend group is there. It seems to be Charlie's first time seeing the rest of the group since getting out of treatment. Tori is also there. It's just a lot of shenanigans. It's a lot of partying. And then at midnight, they're like, oh, we all have to you know watch the fireworks and kiss. And Sahar and Imogen have like a tough conversation where Imogen learns that she is the reason Sahar realized she's bi. And so they end up kissing at midnight. James and Isaac just vibe together, basically. James comes over to Isaac and he's like, don't worry, I don't want to kiss you. I just don't want to be alone, which I thought is really cute. Obviously, Charlie and Nick kiss Toa and Elle have sex at midnight.

Yeah, they sneak away into a room. Ah!

Our first bone town.

Yup.

Our first trip. um Yeah, this goes into the other plot points we had written down, which I'll just go into the New Year's party. like I mentioned about Saharan Imogen and then so we get these cute moments of like Darcy talking to Felix about their gender identity and, and feeling more comforted and also Elle talking to Naomi about how she doesn't- she and Tao want to be intimate, but she doesn't know how to be with her transness and is worried about him and stuff. And Naomi's basically like, you and Tao love each other. You know that. You trust him. Why would you not trust him now? And like just just have fun and take things as you can. um And so Elle leads Tao into a random-ass bedroom where they have sex at midnight.

Yep.

Crazy. Our notes? Our notes?

Yeah, so this episode is the only episode in this season that is based on Heartstopper, so it pulls scenes from the webcomic, but also pulls a lot from one of Alice's novellas this winter.

Yeah. I think it's mostly from this winter.

Yeah.

We get a lore drop in this one because one of the cousins asks Charlie how long we've been together and Nick and Charlie have been together for about eight months at this point. Which feels so long. I like that we open with Tori again. Like I said, I like that we see more of Tori and then the Tori and Charlie scene together in bed is so, so cute.

It's so cute and just like, I guess it depends on your sibling dynamic, but it felt very realistic to me to be like, we know today is gonna suck, so let's have this moment where we can just like soak up each other and the fact that we like each other and just like hide away in bed from the world for a few minutes. Like, I really enjoyed that.

I've never had a close sibling dynamic, but it is even real to me too. like When you know that both of you are gonna go through a sucky day to kind of rally together beforehand. I might not have cuddled with my sibling like that, but we would have like gone to each other's room and been like, are you ready for today?

Yeah.

Hehehe Sorry, I'm like squealing over here because I'm just like, everything is so cute.

It is this episode and the next one. Honestly, this whole second half. In this episode, I don't know if it's the first time in the season, but I noted it more, is we kind of get the switch from Charlie and Nick texting. They still do text one another, but we hear them use voice notes more often, which feels like, I don't know, at least to me, like a next step in A relationship kind of like to feel intimate enough with someone to just like send them a voice note versus texting something out. It feels very personal.

This happens because Nick sends a text showing a photo of him and Henry and Charlie responds with a voice note being like, Henry is the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life and I have to meet him immediately and and it's very fun and also very authentic. And I've seen people be like, thank God we're out of the Instagram DMs because the first two seasons we were messaging over Instagram for everything. And finally we're in, finally we're in iMessage, okay?

Yeah. Yeah, there are still some Instagram moments, but yes, it's mostly in iMessage.

But now they're appropriate but because before it was like, why are Nick and Charlie using Instagram in season two to to communicate? Whereas now it's like Tori and Nick, like, okay, they probably don't have each other's number.

Yeah, yeah, fair.

I really enjoyed in this episode in the Christmas part, seeing the contrast between Charlie's family and Nick's family because I think they're both very real families. I can't relate to Nick's family. But you see like Charlie is so uncomfortable with his own family and then he goes over to the Nelson house and he doesn't know most of the people there but he just is like having a great time and is so comfortable and I have known some families like that. I relate more to Charlie's family where like they don't inherently suck. They're not well or poorly intended. They're not trying to be rude, but they are ignorant and not emotionally intelligent or aware. And things can be just kind of difficult even when you're trying to have a good time. I just thought it was well done, like showing that difference.

They also showed it with music too, which I appreciated the music around Charlie's house. The soundtrack and stuff is a little bit more like darker, deeper, where like when you go into Nick's house, you hear like Christmas bells and it's very bright and everything feels very like holidays and in your face, even with the music, which kind of helps draw the difference between the two dynamics.

I never noticed. I love that though.
 
Okay, maybe this is me, but I feel like David looks like a different actor entirely. Like the mustache, the hair, I don't know who signed off on it. I didn't like any of it. I was not a fan.

I can't say it's just you because I don't know what the people are saying online. So if you agree with Jess, please validate her feelings because me, I cannot. That was the same man. His hair was a little more rugged. That was it.

He did not have that weird, like, I shaved my mustache yesterday, and now it's like all weird and stubbly. He did not have that mustache in last season.

I can't say I've ever paid that much attention to his face.

It's horrid. It's the worst mustache I've ever seen.

We mentioned it already, but I appreciated that they gave us Oliver 

I feel like they hyped it up a little bit to a point that I expected more. So I was almost left a little disappointed that it was like, he was in like half of the scene and then there was some mention of them wanting to play Mario Kart with him and that's it. I was like, I expected like a little bit more Oliver than what we got.

I didn't know that it was hyped up, so I didn't have any expectations.

Yeah, they did like an announcement of the actor and Joe in multiple interviews is like, oh, Jensen is like a star. And I'm like, how do you even know that he was there for three seconds?

Well, he had a couple scenes because there were, there was when he first came in the house and then he was there for some of like the dinner comvo. But the big one was definitely, so Tori says that when she comes to Nick's house that Oliver's throwing a fit because he wants to play Mario Kart and no one will play with him because Charlie's gone. And then we got a really cute scene of Tori, Nick and Oliver, or not Nick, Tori, Charlie and Oliver playing Mario Kart and Tori and Oliver both trying to sabotage Charlie

yeah 

because he's gonna be the best anyway And that I think was really the fan service there because that's something that we see in the comics quite a bit is the three of them playing Mario Kart.

Playing games. Yeah.

Yeah, so I appreciated that scene. I felt like that was all I really needed from him. I'm not that attached to him as a character. He's too young to be consequential.

Fair. I just felt like there could have been a little bit more.

Fair enough. Of other new editions, we get Henry the Pug, which there's a fun fun interview. Well, actually, it's a pretty low-energy interview, but there's a fun fact going around in an interview with Kit and Joe for their press junket, where they mention that Henry the Pug was originally played by a dog named Mango, who was very excitable. and Mango and Kit had creative differences and so he was replaced with another pug named Doug which really pleases them and that he was just a wonderful fellow to work with and I just thought it was really cute.

Mmhmm.

I like animal actors and thinking about what goes into that.

Yeah, yeah, me too. There is this moment where Darcy is getting ready for holiday celebrations and Darcy's grandma walks in on them and is like, oh, you look so handsome. And it made me want to tear up like it was so sweet and so welcoming and so accepting. And I just like loved that the grandma like used a different gendered term and a gendered term that they knew would please Darcy. I just, I don't know. It's like those small things that mean a lot, you know?

Yeah, that show that the people around you care. Yeah. 

Mhmm

Also we see Isaac with a giant, I repeat giant, snowman mug. This is totally a Jessica comment because it's inconsequential to the plot. It doesn't matter but it's about food so you know I'm gonna say it. A giant snowman mug of hot chocolate with whipped cream sticking off the top and it looked so delicious and I wanted it.

Look, I appreciate it and I've seen people talk about how cozy he looked and like how we should all aspire to that and I agree. He's like in a comfy chair, he's got his books, he's got his cocoa, he's got the warm lighting. What I want to know is where is this boy's family? He spends this spends this whole season feeling so alone in his friend group and then it's Christmas time and he's not even with his family? He's still reading a book?

Yeah, also it's like, why is he not over at Nick's? It feels like they would have wanted more company.

Well, why would he be at Nick's?

Because the more the merrier. Clearly his family's not celebrating. You know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, I get what you mean, yeah. I was thinking like, well, his family's probably doing something. He's just like off in a room by himself or something or like, I don't know. I don't know that Isaac and Nick are close enough for that.

Fair

But I get what you mean of like, if his family like is out of town or not doing something and he's like, oh, I don't want to be alone on the holidays. Yeah, I don't know. It just made me sad because I'm like, this boy has been so lonely all season. But also the whole reason we see him is just like a funny little exchange where Nick has already sent the photo of Henry to Charlie and he responded with his voice note. But then he sends the photo in the group chat and is like new family member or something.

And Charlie responds saying like he's so cute and Nick says thanks I am or thanks or something like just like making it seem like the comment was about him and Isaac's like stop flirting in the group chat guys and it's just funny.

Yeah.

there's a scene that Jess mentioned where Tori is like, please stay for me and Charlie's like deuces. And I really, I mixed feelings about the scene. I guess mostly I appreciate it because like I said, Tori is very, worried all season. 

Yeah

She looks so worried about Charlie and Charlie's not the nicest person. He lashes out at the people who love him because he's going through a lot and that happens. But that doesn't really make it a great excuse and Tori definitely lets him walk all over her to an extent. And this is the one time that we see her stand up for herself and say like, I don't even get to see you at Christmas. You're always at Nick's. This sucks for me too. You can't be here for me. I'm not having a great time. And he says he wants to be around someone who doesn't treat him like he's ill all the time. And she's like, I don't either. I don't like, you know, she really does stand up for herself. And then the reason I have mixed feelings is I think she's doing great. But then he just says, I know I'm sorry, and then leaves anyway. He just leaves. He doesn't even hug her, and she's about to cry. dude, give your sister a hug. Say more than just I'm sorry. You're not sorry if you're just saying sorry and leaving anyway.

I think it was very real because he is a little selfish and he's clearly like prioritizing his mental health in that moment and I don't think you can fully fault someone for that. But yeah, there's no like comforting her at all. I have read online that a lot of people who have read Solitaire appreciate this moment because they feel that it sets up the plot of Solitaire very, very well to know where Tori is at.

Mmm 

Because I've not read solitaire, I can't like speak to that, but I know that a lot of people are like, oh, this specific moment is setting up a lot of solitaire, which was like interesting.

That is interesting. I don't fault him for still removing himself from the house. It's mostly just that he didn't comfort her at all.

Or be like, come with me.

Yeah.

Because she ends up there anyway. Just be like, let's go together.

Yeah, because she literally looks like she's about to cry 

Yeah

and you guys care so much for each other. Why would you not comfort her at all? this for me was the only episode that felt a little weird that we don't see Sarah Nelson, Nick's mom just because it's Christmas and we do see his aunt. Generally speaking, I didn't feel any type of way about her being gone because to me it's like she's still there. She's just off screen. But this was the only one because it's Christmas and we see so much more of his family.

Yeah, and it's at his house, which you're like, if she's not there, why would it be at his house? And I get what you're saying, like, maybe she's just off screen or not seeing her, but it does still feel... She felt more missed, for sure.

Yeah, I almost wish that they did like a voiceover, like just like a couple lines she could record in an ADR booth to be like, Nick, come down for dinner so that you don't have to actually be on set, but still feel her presence in the house.

Hmm. Yeah. I would have liked that. I wonder how busy her schedule was, but I feel like that takes like two hours.

Yeah, yeah, that would just be a choice. There's, um, some fun moments in this episode, especially when Charlie is at Nick's. So first he, he, our baby boy threw his tantrum and walked off through the rain to Nick's house. So he's drenched. So he changes to Nick's clothes and Nick is like, he has to turn around for Charlie, but he also is like clearly kind of trying to peek.

Mhmm

He's like, my boyfriend is like half naked behind me. Which is fun. 

But he's like trying to be respectful of Charlie's request at the same time 

Yeah

to like turn around.

Yeah, you can see that he wants he wants to turn and look, but he's also like fighting the urge. 

Yeah

Good acting on Kit's part, honestly.

Yeah.

And also there's this whole funny montage. I think it's funny because it's Nick and Charlie once they're at Nick's house and they're having such a good time, but it's like them hanging out with Henry and Nellie and then them making out violently in Nick's room and then they're playing Janga with the cousins and then they're making out and it's like you just like imagine for that to be real they'd have to constantly be like um we're gonna go to and like they're just like dipping in and out of the family things it's funny

I feel like it's easier to do that in a party scenario where everyone is distracted by everyone else though. So like a holiday like this is probably the time to be able to like sneak away and be in the room and make out with your boyfriend, you know?

Yeah, true, true. I'm also just so jealous of them that everyone can just seemingly walk to each other's house because I did not have friends whose houses I could walk to. And know they do it so much this season. I'm so jealous.

Yeah, I also just like want a map. I'm like, how far are they walking?

I always get the impression it's about a 10 minute walk. I don't know why, but that is something that's in my head, that it's about a 10 minute walk between Nick and Charlie's house.

But don't you wish all your friends were a 10-minute walk away?

Yes.

Life would be so much better.

Although I will say I have a friend that lives less than a 10 minute walk from me and I never see them.

well

Except we do run into each other sometimes waiting for the subway.

Okay.

yeah, I wish all my friends were that close. And even if we we, like we would have to buy houses next to each other for us to be a 10 minute walk away because of how things are so spread out in, in the US.

Yeah

So it's very, very European, very British, and I'm so jealous.

I agree with you here. You said you need to know the legality of Nick driving his friends around and I also need to know the legality I know they have different rules than us, but ours when you're on a permit, you're not supposed to drive anyone else. Well, your license, the first year, right?

Well, license rules changed state per state, but what we grew up with in California, which I think is pretty normal probably, is that if you are a minor, you're not supposed to drive around minors. Especially the first year that you have your license, yeah. like Not even just permitted, you're not allowed to drive around unattended minors without someone like a licensed driver who's over the age of 24 in the car. which yeah sometimes we do sometimes we don't but this kid is like 16 17 just got his 17 because his birthday he just got his license and already he's driving Charlie around to the New Year's party and Charlie's like you know you're gonna be my chauffeur now right and he's driving everyone around and I would like to know the legality so let me know guys

Yeah. Tara's entire New Year's Eve outfit is silvery silver and sparkly. And her makeup is like gorgeous all season, but especially for this New Year's Eve party. And I just want her makeup artists to come do my makeup.

All right, let's make it happen. Look them up, find out who they are.

Yeah, probably can't afford them. Also, they live in the UK.

Hey man, we we can travel. I really love this moment when they roll up to the New Year's Eve party and it's the girlies, which is what I call Tara, Imogen, Elle, and Darcy, even though Darcy is now a they, it's still the, all of them run up to Charlie to be like, oh my God. And they're just like squirming and they're like blowing kisses at each other. And you see like more of the like, happy gay mannerisms and everyone's just such a vibe. Oh, Sahar is also there. it just Everyone is just such a vibe and I really love their friend group. They're so fun. They're so cool. I want friends like that now.

Yeah.

Sorry to my friends. I love you guys. You're just, you're not them.

at the New Year's Eve party, we get a Tao and Elle dance scene. that is just like typical their style. Tao is dancing and Elle is throwing the dollars at him and they are just like having a blast.

And what I love about this one was that we see at the start of it that Elle can dance. Elle's hot, Elle's moving around, and then Tao's being a goof, and so she just changes speed.

Yeah, she adapts

She's like not above being a silly, goofy girl.

Mm-mm.

We get the return of Nick leaning on Charlie to recharge, which he does at the New Year's Eve party and it's something he did in Paris. And it's so cutie.

Mm-mm.

He's like, I just need a moment to recharge. I liked that we get a Harry cameo. We get a couple of Harry green cameos in this season. And this was one of them at the New Year's Eve party, just because like, it makes it feel more and more real. I guess the more characters that we get where even though they don't, they aren't a major part of the story anymore. They're still around. I really appreciate that detail. Cause I hate how shows will have someone who's like a major character. and then they just disappear on it unexplained.

Yeah.

We haven't really had that in this one. But also the fireworks that are at this party are just some like bootleg fireworks that Harry and his friends set off in the backyard and the California in me was screaming.

Also that they set off like so many at once.

And so close to everyone.

Yeah, and so close to one another, like the fireworks were not that far apart. I was like, this is a disaster waiting to happen.

I know. Guys, we're not allowed fireworks in California. It's illegal. It depends on the...

That's not true. It depends on the county.

Okay.

But where we grew up, we are not allowed them. My parents now live in the Central Valley and that firework stress situation stresses me out every 4th of July. It's like wild out there.

I hate that. Yeah, because so much of California is just drought land. It's all dehydrated desert shit that lights on fire so fast. We're not supposed- And I get it. I get it. It rains in England, but it still makes me uncomfortable.

Yeah, also I feel like it was grass.

It was grass. It was grass and there were trees around.

Yeah, should not be allowed.

one of the, the notes that we get in this party is Tori and Michael seeing each other for the first time. As we mentioned, Michael is a character from solitaire and he becomes more recurring in this latter half of this season. This is the very first time they see each other and it's the most dramatic scene I think of this entire season and that includes

I loved it.

Like, Charlie going to treatment centers, and this is the most dramatic scene I think. It's got Robin blaring over them, and they don't know each other, they don't say anything to each other. They just pass, pause, turn around, and stare at each other for a few seconds. For seemingly no reason.

Yeah You don't even know like really, is there interest there? It's not particularly flirty. It is just like a stop and stare moment. It is very dramatic, but I loved it.

They didn't like bump into each other 

No

to cut like there's no point. There's no reason for them to stop and stare.

No, I think Tori even turned around.

They both do. Yeah.

getting into some quotes, I wrote this one down and Amanda added on to it. This is when, 

Do you want to play roles? Sorry.

yeah, sure. I'll be Tori.

Okay, this is the first, the opening scene where Tori gets into bed with Charlie on Christmas morning.

I hope I get a soul.

I hope I get good mental health.

I hope I get a mom who regulate, who can regulate her emotions.

I hope I get grandparents who won't comment on my weight.

I hope dad remembers to properly season the turkey.

He won't.

Yeah, he won't.

Obviously, we're not actors. Their delivery is better. Also, they have accents, but it's just really cute that they're like making all these like dramatic-ass hopes for Christmas.

Yeah.

They're not like, I hope I get this game or what a new drum kit or something. They're like the most dramatic, impossible things they can think of.

Yep. Nick says this to David because David is waiting for their dad to show up. And Nick is like, he never shows up. He always says he's going to and he never does. Like you have a whole family inside that cares about you. Like why are you not paying attention to us? So he goes, I think family are the people who actually give a shit.

And then I added this detail that they very not slightly pan the camera to the other side of the door where Tori has just shown up at Nick's house.

It's a fun touch. 

Yeah

Okay. Episode six.

Body

In this one, we get a guest star of Mr. Jonathan Bailey as Jack Maddox. Jonathan Bailey, if you don't know, is well known for being the, oh, I don't remember his full title, but Anthony. His name is Anthony Bridgerton, and he's he's the head of the Bridgerton household, Viscount, sorry, Viscount Anthony Bridgerton. and he's also going to be in the new Wicked movie. He's been in a lot of other things. He is a very hot gay actor who in Bridgerton does not seem gay with the way that he is a muncher.

Oh!

(Laughter)

It's now April. It's been four months since the previous episode, again with the time jumps. And Charlie's in therapy with Geoff, reflecting on the last four months since leaving inpatient treatment. So we learn that he went back to school in January and it wasn't a smooth transition. We see him lashing out at Nick and struggling to eat and then apologizing to Nick after relapsing and self-harming. Geoff says Charlie needs to name three good bits of progress. And then also when Charlie is recounting his stories, Geoff points out two for him. So one being that he's having fewer intrusive thoughts and another being that yes, he relapsed, but he is three months clean from self-harming. And then for the third, Charlie mentions that he feels like he and Nick are stronger than ever, particularly since that fight because Nick saw him at his lowest. And so he really feels like he wants to be around him, I guess. Geoff says with, if your intrusive thoughts are taking less of your energy, you have more energy for your relationship, which then cuts to an intense montage of just Nick and Charlie making out violently, passionately everywhere and anywhere, mostly in Nick's room, sometimes in Charlie's room, sometimes in school. And then cut to Charlie in his room with Isaac and Tao telling them i We make out a lot and it's getting really hot and heavy and they're like, maybe you're ready to have sex. And then Charlie looks at himself in the mirror naked and has um anxious thoughts about his appearance and his scars, which brings us back to, is he ready to have sex?

For his birthday Nick gives Charlie tickets for a talk and book signing for Jack Maddox who's a like famous Instagram philosopher and so for Charlie's 16th birthday party his parents leave him the house for the night and all of his friends come over and Michael and they have this like tents in the backyard, like backyard sleepover sort of vibe. Tori and Michael go upstairs and Charlie and the entire friend group drink a lot, they dance, they camp in tents. It's just like a whole montage. They're having a blast. But then there's this moment where, you know, they're starting to talk about future plans, plans for uni. Darcy says they're going to take a gap year. And Tara's asked about uni and full on has a panic attack and has to like get up and go into the living room where Charlie finds her. And Charlie uses the breathing techniques that Geoff taught him to help calm down Tara.

Nick witnesses all of this happen and is like, oh my gosh, you're so good. Like, how did you know how to do that? And Charlie's like, I'm so drunk. They go into the kitchen together. Charlie tells Nick that he wants to take it further. And Nick is like, you are way too drunk. And he's like, Yeah, I'm just scared to do this sober. in the morning, Nick reminds Charlie of their conversation. And Charlie's like, Oh my god, I'm so embarrassing. And Nick's like, No, I'm really glad you brought it up.

then Tori and Michael interrupt because of course they do and they give the parents are going to be home in 30 minutes get your asses up and moving. And Michael's like, I'm going to make eggs on toast. looks like you guys need eggs on toast.

The next day or that day that day is Charlie's birthday maybe or the day- whatever anyway, so

It might be that day.

It is the day that they just woke up. I'm just saying, I don't know if Charlie's birthday is this day or if it was the day before, but regardless, anyway, waking up post party hangovers, post eggs on toast, Nick and Charlie go to Jack Maddox's speaking and signing event, and Elle and Tao go to an interview that I don't know if we've mentioned, but Elle got invited to an interview for her artwork through like her teacher at Lambert. At the author talk, Nick is like teasing Charlie about, oh, are you ready to meet the love of your life? Because he has a crush on him. and he like looks a bit jealous at times, but then also by the end of the event, he's like totally also crushing on Jack Maddox. And when they meet him, Nick is just like stumbling over his words and then literally stumbles into someone.

Yeah.

And then it tells Charlie, he's like, yeah, he's really hot.

Yeah.

At that interview that I mentioned, Elle who was brought this was brought to her by her art teacher and is supposed to be about her artwork. And she's there with her parents and Tao. And the radio interviewer starts by asking her about her art pieces and then very quickly transitions into talking about how her transness informs her art pieces, which then brings up a discussion, a very adult discussion about trans politics basically, the politics that are currently being put out there about trans people and the way that society is demonizing them and discriminating against them, which is a very heavy topic and a very real topic for people all over the world right now. And Elle shuts down, removes herself from the interview. Her parents get very mad and yell at the radio station about how this is not what they agreed to. And Elle cries.

After the book signing, Charlie and Nick start making out violently in Charlie's room. And we see Charlie get anxious, which is like shown by the black like drawings around him when Nick touches part of his body, but he pushes past it, but then his mom walks in. Charlie tells Nick that he's not comfortable with taking his shirt off and that he's worried about, you know, his body and his scars and maybe he's too skinny. And Nick says he doesn't care that he, you know, fancies Charlie. as he is. But also like if that's what Nick is most comfortable or if that's what Charlie is most comfortable with then Nick is fine with that too.

We end in therapy with Charlie explaining to Geoff how he just gets these like really anxious thoughts that he's worried that Nick will find him disgusting, even though Charlie himself doesn't actually think that he's disgusting. And he also knows that Nick loves him and won't think that he's disgusting. He just like can't help having these thoughts. And Geoff says he's very brave. And Charlie's like, I just don't feel confident. And so Geoff says that's just something he's going to have to work on.

other little plot points is Sahar asked Charlie to be the drummer in their band Queer Intentions, which is performing at like a summer festival. And he's a little unsure, but he does end up agreeing to do it. We also get Imogen at Charlie's birthday party. Imogen and Sahar in a tent together. And so we get Imogen apologizing to Sahar for hurting her. And shares that she's made her realize the same about herself, but they both agree that they are better off as friends.

in a very cheeky way that says they don't believe it.

Yeah, yeah.

So getting into our um notes, Jess wrote a very funny first note.

this birthday party, this amazing tent backyard sleepover was Charlie's birthday party, which one is my dream, but two also, I can't believe their parents like left him for his birthday that they let him do this big giant party and bring everyone over who set it all up. Like they're 16. Like I just have so many questions. It feels so unrealistic.

The parents note was mine, but yes, i like I cannot believe that they left Charlie for his birthday weekend. I feel like it was a request and they agreed to it because Tori was there, but I also still can't believe, because I feel like also his mom would be like, well, I want to spend my son's birthday with him, blah, blah, blah. It shows growth in her, but it is a great it is a great birthday party it is very cute there are a lot of decorations that is something that is super unrealistic about this show is that everything like the sets the art is so incredible that like real people could never like remember that prom scene in season two when we were like there is no way that these six goofballs who have been talking and throwing paint at each other this whole time actually pulled this off in like two hours like that's not 

Yeah

yeah so it's it's giving that also also

Yeah.

At the end, when Michael and Tori very bravely open up Nick and Charlie's tent without any warning, they give them a 30 minute warning about the parents coming home and I'm like, 30 minutes is not enough.

No, no. Minimum one hour minimum.

Yeah.

Yeah. leading up to this season dropping in a lot of the interviews, Joe and Kit were like, oh, there is so much making out. They had to like edit out beard burns because we were making out so much.

A giant volcano on on Joe's chin that he got that wouldn't heal because he had to keep making out and they edited it out.

Yeah, like all of these things and Amanda and I kept sending it to each other and we're like, this feels dramatic as hell and like so exaggerated. But I do have to say there is a lot more kissing in this season. So like maybe I believe them now.

Yes, there's a lot more kissing. It's a lot more passionate.

Yeah.

It's also hornier. There's like, even though there's like not a lot of sex, there's a lot of yearning for it, 

Yes

which we're seeing start to develop with Charlie saying to Nick that he wants to take it further. And, and it's happening with all the couples, Tao and Elle just had sex. Also heartstopper has those little scenes where they like fantasize sometimes so then there's some extra making out so I get why they did say that and I also feel like this probably like felt even more so when you have to film it and it's like you're filming for hours and hours and hours but also I just have to say every single kiss every single make out that we get Kit throws his whole body into it

mhmm 

like Joe also but like Kit really throws his whole body into a kiss

Yeah, yeah, it's intense.

It's intense and um yeah, I appreciate it. I appreciate watching it.

Yep, yep.

And I appreciate that I'm seeing him in theater where he's gonna do that again live soon.

Yep. Hard pivot, guys, hard pivot with this next note. Personally, I'm not someone who necessarily is affected by a content warning for a lot of the things that are discussed in this season, especially the eating disorder stuff. However, I was not prepared to visibly see the self-harm scars in the mirror. that was a very You see it multiple times, but the first time we see them in the mirror, that was really, really tough for me to watch.

It was jarring. I wasn't expecting it, not because I don't know that about Charlie, but because I just wasn't expecting the show to go there. I will say at the end of episode four, they have the little like, if you or anyone you know is struggling with an eating disorder helpline moment. But I do think in general this season and certain aspects, certain episodes could have really used proper trigger warnings or content warnings up front. Could have used a warning there

yeah 

which I'm a little surprised that there wasn't one.

Also surprised because I feel like Netflix does do it for other shows and this feels like something that like Alice would think about including.

I agree, that's why I'm surprised is it seems like something Alice would have asked for.

Yeah.

it's not, luckily, like, I don't know, it's not too graphic. It's not like you see himself harm or anything. 

No

It's just there are scars.

Yeah.

And it wouldn't be realistic if they weren't there. It was just very like alarming to see for the first time. I just thought that the introduction to Michael is hilarious. He's just like very in your faced has no like societal boundaries that he understands. Is this when he gives Charlie the cat?

Yes.

Okay, so he gives Charlie a birthday gift of this little ceramic cat that you would find in like some weird grandmother's house that's like collected vintage trinkets for 45 years. And it's like, I saw it and it reminded me of you so I couldn't walk away without it. And he's just so authentically himself, but in a way that is just like, yeah, not following any societal norms and I love it.

Yeah, he says it had the same energy as you, so you belong together.

Yaya!

And I added to this note as Michael is so autistic and it's so charming. I i knew of Michael. I hadn't seen that. I don't i hadn't remembered that he was autistic. he's just so in your face, his mannerisms and stuff. It's very charming to me because like like you said, he doesn't care about norms or seemingly pick up on a lot of social cues. He's just like, this is what I think. This is how I feel.

I don't know if he is canonically autistic, 

Well he reads it

or just described as neurodivergent, but yes, definitely reads very autistic.

Mm-hmm.

Also the eggs on toast moment

yes the eggs on toast

where like you could tell him in that situation, he was like, I don't know what to do here, but I can provide eggs on toast So I'm going to separate myself and do that.

Exactly. He's like, this is a problem that I can help solve.

Yes, yeah. did you think that Charlie's drunk acting felt not great?

No, I actually thought it was pretty good.

i He did not seem drunk at all to me.

I think that there's the panic attack moment where he seems very sober and that to me was like pretty real because that can happen when you're like snapping into action.

Sure

It's it's quite grounding and he's just helping her and focus on her and then when he's in the kitchen he seems pretty drunk because he's like wobbling into Nick where Nick ends up spilling the water that he was prepping for him and he's like more touchy feely. He's not like slurring his words, but I don't really slur my words when I'm drunk either.

Yeah

So to me, it just seemed like a casual. We see him like when they're in the backyard, he like plops on to Nick really casually. Yeah, I enjoyed it.

Mmh Yeah, I don't know. It didn't read as drunk It read as someone acting drunk 

Okay

to me. Especially that stumble moment just felt like super forced. It didn't feel like it looked like someone who was drunk again. It looked like someone who was acting drunk. Like I just, yeah, it didn't read very realistic 

Fair enough

to me at least.

I also always think that acting drunk is probably one of the harder things to do convincingly.

Oh, i yeah. I can only think of a few great ones, but Nick on New Girl is like one of the best acting drunk actors I've ever seen. He's very good at acting drunk.

I did really like when they were in the kitchen. Charlie had some lines to Nick where he's like, I really like you and don't ever leave me. And I'm just like, so real, Charlie, so real. Cause that do be the needy shit that we say to our partners when we're drunk.

Yeah, the writing felt real. The writing, I was like, yes, this is some drunk conversation right here.

yes. I didn't even clock this the first time that I watched it. I only did the second time, but when they're in the montage and throughout the party, there's a moment where they're dancing drunkenly and loudly to Good 4 You by Olivia Rodrigo in the Backyard. And I was like, not Joe getting his friend's song on the soundtrack. like Because if you don't know, Joe Locke and Olivia Rodrigo are pretty good friends. Seemingly, they hang out and he goes to her concerts and they've you know posted pictures together multiple times. So I just think it was like a really funny touch.

Yeah.

I'm like, who whose idea was that? like Was that music production or was that him?

I feel like there's a world in which it was him being like, oh, if there is a way to incorporate an Olivia song, we should.

Or music production saying, Joe, you're friends with Olivia, wouldn't this be fun?
 
Yeah. Nick struggling for words around Jack Maddox was like so funny for me because Charlie is the one who like came in with this crush on him, who has like idolized him and follows him and likes him. And he just has like a normal conversation with him. Is like totally cool calm collected. And like Nick cannot get a word out is just like stopped in his tracks like cannot function.

And then he makes up the lie that like this joke was really good, even though we saw that he did not understand the joke at all.

No.

Yeah, and this is part of the comics as well like this whole Jack Maddox thing happens in the comics. Jonathan Bailey had wanted to be involved in Heartstopper and this just happened to be literally the perfect role for him.

Yeah.

Joe and Kit have said it was like a great day of basically not acting for them because they just got to like sit and gush over how hot he is and he is in fact very hot.

yeah

so Yeah, it's it's a really fun nod, and I think one of the parts that I love about it is that if if you've read the comics, you know that there's this like recurring bit that Nick very much has a type, even though he is bisexual and interested in people of all genders. He's like very much the dark, curly-haired, blue-eyed nerd like that he's into, which is Charlie. Jack Maddox fits that. Zooey Deschanel is one of his celebrity crushes, and so it's a fun nod to that.

We get a little bit more storytelling through music again. And this is, again, sounds like the soundtrack versus like a song by another artist. But the kiss when Nick gives Charlie the tickets for Jack Maddox is the same music as when Charlie gives Nick the chocolate bar in season one.

Yeah, this one I did not. I definitely did not catch

That one I did not catch. This one is you sleuths out there on the internet.

It's loose.

Sleuths.

Oh, sleuths

Yes.

as a mentally ill, as a self identify, not self, I'm therapist diagnosed, mentally ill human being. I just watching these, I know obviously he's a fictional character, but this little bean, Charlie is just doing such a good job communicating and being brave. And I love to see it. He's so good at explaining like what he's feeling insecure about or uncomfortable with and and things going on in his in his little head that's going a million miles an hour. and i love to see it and appreciate it. And I also relate too much to his insecurities. And the end of this episode, when he's talking to Geoff about his insecurities, I related too hard and I rewound and rewatched to be like, maybe I can get some pointers from this scripted show that is not actually a licensed therapist giving advice. I shouldn't have. Don't worry. I have my own licensed therapist and we're working through self-love right now, actually, as the prompt. So, um, yeah, I just appreciate the, um, the representation.

Mm-hmm.

And I also feel called out.

Sometimes you need to be called out.

this is my, when you were watching life with Derek and you were like, Casey's perfectionism is like hitting a little too close to home.

Yeah.

That was this for me.

Fair. 

quotes, okay, that this is the funniest fucking, I love this.

Yeah.

I love Imogen, I love her so much. When she's in the tent, Sahar gives her wine and she's like, it's your drink of choice. And Imogen very seriously goes, is it sustainable? I'm trying to do my bit. And then Sahar's like, just drink Imogen and leaves the tent. And I just love Imogen cause she's so, I'm trying to do my bit. It's like, you're in a house full of decorations that are gonna get thrown out after this. Like there's so many, you know, Who cares if the wine is sustainable?

Yeah, it's very small. In the morning after Charlie's birthday party, we see Tara jump out of the tent about to yak, and Darcy is running after Tara and is like, wait, I'll hold your hair back. And it is just like so sweet and makes me love their relationship. It was just great.

Nothing has ever made me want a girlfriend more than that scene. 

Yeah

I was like, this is why girls like girls.

yeah, so sweet.

Pivot in mood to the Geoff end scene about Charlie's insecurities is Charlie says, I don't feel confident. And Geoff says, that's just a challenge you're going to have to face. And I was it's a love hate relationship with that quote. Let me tell you. Geoffrey.

We don't know if it's Geoffrey.

It is for the purpose of scolding him, thank you!

Okay.

Let me have this!

I'll allow it.

Episode 7!

Together! We open with a montage of Tara in dance class, dancing her little heart out. And then Charlie and Nick hanging out and Charlie keeps touching Nick and there's the little fireworks. Tara and Nick hang out at the park with the dogs. And Tara like takes a moment to really like check in on Nick and make sure that he's okay. And she suggests that he journals, which is like a reoccurring bit throughout this season that Tara is like, journaling is really great, you should give it a try. And she talks about just like having a lot on her plate. She's feeling stressed about uni, about what's in store for her future, and how she really loves ballet, but the class is three buses away, and so Nick offers to drive her.

So cutie

I know.

At school, Charlie, Tao, and Isaac are in sex ed class talking again about how Charlie wants to have sex, but he's also like maybe like because I'm so nervous, maybe that means I'm not ready and they're like, Charlie, you've been talking about this for weeks. You're fucking ready. Okay, and Charlie and Nick have this flirty text exchange because the sex ed class gives them cucumbers and condoms. And he's like, hahaha, I just put a condom on a cucumber. And Nick's like, you should try it not on a cucumber next time. And he goes, gay, which is so real. That is exactly how gay people talk. It's so funny.

Yeah, it's the perfect response to lighten it.

Yeah and Tao's like you guys flirt in such a weird way but also then he was like I know that I talk about me and Elle's sex life is like it was some perfect magical thing but like it is a journey it's okay to be nervous like it's fun because you're doing it together.

And it's supposed to be fun. Nick is sat with his friends in study hall and he is overhearing Harry talk about sex and he has this kind of conversation with all of the like rugby lad friend group about how like losing your virginity is just a concept but a lot of them are like yeah but your first time is a big deal because it's your first time after this, he, oh my god, Amanda wrote, he's so horny, Nick literally races Charlie back to his place to make out.

He does.

Which is very true, but it's a very aggressive statement. Only for David to interrupt. And you can tell David does not want to interrupt as much as they did not want David interrupting. David's like, oh my god. like His reaction is almost stronger than Nick and Charlie's.

And Nick tells him to fuck off.

Yeah, yeah. And then they agree that it's okay, they can be nervous about sex together.

Which is such a healthy and cute way to look at it.

Mm hmm.

At Lambert Felix encourages Elle to talk to the people in her life about what happened at the interview because Elle, while everyone else is horny running around, Elle's kind of shut down after that bad experience. And like even Tao chose not to tell Charlie and Isaac what happened with it. she doesn't feel like she can talk to Tao because he wouldn't understand. And Naomi and Felix are there and say, you know, We understand but like you can talk to people you can trust people. Nick and Charlie really want to have a sex sleepover as Jess wrote it. They want to have a sleepover so they can have sex, which is, I guess, a sex sleepover. 

Yeah

They're like, this is the plan. They're Like, people keep interrupting us. We don't know where to go. We don't know what to do. Like, we need to have a sleepover is what is what it is, which I can't think of a less comfortable thing than knowing that your parents could be woken up in the middle of the night. But anyway, I wasn't a teenager having sex. So Charlie, he's gonna ask his mom he's coming up with a plan and he tells Tori and Michael this and Tori's like why don't you just sneak out and Michael's like you don't need to have a sleepover to have sex you're just gonna have sex when you want to have sex the sleepover part is irrelevant. Charlie and his mom like cook dinner together and have like a really cute moment. And then they're doing the dishes after dinner and they're like, that was really great. And then he's like, by the way, I would like to sleep over at my boyfriend's house. And she says, you're a baby and you have GCSEs to study for. And she starts shutting down. Actress is also very great. You can see her like starting to shut down a bit when she's getting into her more controlling like panicked habits and also trying to fight it, Charlie is then immediately fighting her and saying, you just see me as ill. I'm not. I'm ready. And this is something I want to do. Not they're not talking about having sex. They're talking about sleepovers. But we all know what that's code for. he says, I'm not a kid as he's throwing a tantrum and storming out of the house and going to his boyfriend's place where he then tells Nick everything that happens and says, you don't think I'm fragile. And Nick says, no, I think you're the strongest person I know. I'm fragile. I don't know who I am without you. And then Charlie straddles him and they have sex. Gay.

Mhmm. A few other important things happen in this episode, which is Mr. Ajayi asks Charlie, he gives him an application to apply for head student and is like, I think you'd be great. And Mr. Farouk speaks up and is like, you know, there are a lot of younger boys who really could benefit from seeing you as head student. And then we get a little flashback of like young, lost, gay Mr. Farouk as a child.

So cutie!

It was so cute. Darcy takes three buses to see Tara dance which I'm like why didn't Tara tell Darcy that Nick is driving her and then Darcy could have just joined like I don't understand but after dance class Darcy comes out as non-binary and Tara's like oh is that what we're calling it and really thanks Tara for making it so easy for them to like explore gender and explore their identity and like making them feel so accepted. Also Tara and Darcy have sex. And Tao makes Elle a documentary film and shows her in a similar style to the documentary film that he made Charlie. And she opens up to him about feeling down after the interview and kind of uninspired. Oh, also Nick is just full on avoiding thinking about university. We see him like Google some stuff, but like whenever people pose a question, like he does not know where he wants to go. He does not know what he wants to major in. He is just like avoiding the topic altogether as much as he can.

He gets stressed just looking at the websites. Also, I want to say the video that Tao makes, whereas the one that he made for Charlie was all of their friends for Charlie. The one he makes for Elle is all of Elle 

Yeah

and just felt like this is how I see you and and really affirming how beautiful and feminine and wonderful she is to him.

Yeah

Notes. I really liked that this opened up with Tara dancing. I wish we had, like, it made me wish that we had seen more of Tara dancing because I don't know that we ever have. We just knew that she was a dancer. I mean, the actress is a dancer and I don't know. I know that it's not necessary, but it made me wish that I had seen it before.

Yeah, agreed. Me too. I have a question.

I have an answer.

Why is Charlie's shirt being signed?

Because it's the last day of grade 11 before study hall.

Did we see this happen on the last day of grade 11 before study hall for Nick? Because I don't remember his shirt being signed last season.

Maybe I don't remember, but regardless, it like, maybe it wasn't something Nick wanted to do and Charlie did or something, you know, things change.

But no other students have their shirt being signed. It's just Charlie.

Okay, I can't answer all of your questions. It didn't bother me like that. I feel like Nick might have done that, but I don't remember.

Hmm.

The fact that it's the last day of school is crazy. like A full year has passed since the events of season two. It's just it's so weird because it usually is so little time. I just I don't know that the time jumps were were blowing my mind also because I guess we've barely seen Charlie in school at all.

Yeah. Well, you have to think it took us 16 episodes to get through one school year.

Mm hmm.

And now in seven episodes, we've gone an entire year.

and I also understand that like, it's a different story that they're telling is part of it is like showing Charlie's eating disorder and his recovery and the way that it also impacts his relationship with Nick and Nick's relationship with uni and stuff like, and they're doing a time jump because of the actors, but the comics do also read a bit like this where it speeds up.

Yeah.

you know, it's like, in an interview, Joe has said that Things like coming out are probably things that Nick and Charlie are still doing every day, but that's just no longer the story that we're telling. It's no longer the story that's on screen. It doesn't mean it's not happening. And so that's what I'm like trying to think of is like this is the story we're telling and that lends itself to being a faster paced one.

Yeah

But it still is very, it was a little jarring for me, I think.

Hmm. I find that interesting because in season one and season two, you commented both times on how much little time has passed for an entire season and how it shocks you that they took it so slow.

It did, but because they took it so slow, this was a little jarring.

Hmm.

If they hadn't taken it so slow, it wouldn't have been. I don't mind it.

Yeah.

It's just so different.

Yeah, that's fair. while in the car driving Tara to dance class, Nick and Tara are talking about sex and how Nick's ready and nervous and well, I guess at this point, have they had it?

Yeah.

No, this is before.

No, not yet before.

This is when they're trying to plan and he's like, where do you guys normally have sex?

Yeah 

How do you like find places? And there's this lore drop that Tara and Darcy once had sex at school, which is like, oh my God, Tara, not the prefect Oxbridge. Oh my God.

I know. And she's like, but just once.

Yeah, but she was like, school is an option. But also, I'm assuming you're talking about your note was about the the next part of that conversation when he's like, you know, and do you have any tips?

Yeah. He's like, do you have any tips? And Tara's like, I'm not really the person to ask about sex with men. And he's like, Oh yeah.

Yeah, the immediate embarrassment where he's like, fair enough, fair enough. Cause it's so funny to like, you're asking a lesbian 

Yeah

for advice about sex between you and your male partner.

Yeah like no

there are so many horny montages 

Yeah

in this show.

yeah.

So many and you know what? I enjoyed each and every one of them.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

But also a fun like silly fact is in one of the interviews, Joe said anytime that you hear kissing sounds when they're kissing, that's actually they recorded in an ADR booth after the fact them kissing their hands to make those sounds.

Oh my god.

Isn't that so silly?

Yeah, it's very silly and it kind of like, I don't know, it takes away the like, heatedness a little bit to like

A little bit 

it takes you out of it to think of the fact that they're just like in a booth having to kiss their hand.

a little bit. I imagine there were still some noises but they probably weren't as pleasant. Because also I will say like when I'm watching shows like Love Island and they're making out and everything is being picked up on their little mics, it's so disturbing on my ears. I do not want to hear all of those kissing sounds.

Yeah, fair.

I really really like this very cute like teenage look at sex. It's very cute but informed, especially the conversation with Nick and his boys. Nick isn't even part of the conversation. He's not leading it. It's just like his lads fucking slay and are educated. And they're like, I don't get why losing your virginity is a big deal. And virginity is just a construct. And they're like, virginity is a construct. But the big deal is that you haven't had sex before. And of course, you're going to feel a lot of pressure your first time. And it's just like, this is so informed.

Mm hmm. It's those moments that like, Heartstopper does so well, where like, there is a part of you that is like, is this realistic? maybe exaggerated but I want to live in a world where teenagers are having informed conversations like this and they are being educated that virginity is just a construct and that you can still feel that it's a big deal whether it's a construct or not. So it gives you this like look into a world where you're like oh I wish like I hope and wish that this is how teenagers are talking to one another about sex.

Yeah, I think it feels a bit realistic in that it takes place in this time period,

Yeah

because we have things like Imogen wearing Barbie, a Barbie costume for Halloween. So it's pretty safe to assume it's like current time. But the comic started in 2016 or earlier and like The fact that the comics start and the show starts with the aftermath of Charlie being so heavily bullied for being outed and the start of the show is about a lot of just basic level homophobia that makes it feel less realistic even within the universe 

Yeah

when then people have very nuanced understandings of sex and sexuality.

Yeah.

But I still like them.

Yeah, yeah, me too.

And I also like the touch of Tao not telling Isaac and Charlie about the interview, as I mentioned, because they ask like, Oh, what happened with Elle's interview? And he's like, Oh, I think they just chose not to air it. Because it just shows like, even though he's really close with all his friends, and they're all close with Elle, Tao is keeping in mind like what she probably once shared as his partner. It's like and another level of intimacy.

Mhmm

I feel like Charlie's mom was justified, low-key 

I don't, but we'll get into that more in the next episode, but I do not.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Cause to me, like, I feel like this boy is a fresh 16. I'm not saying the like mentally ill stuff because I really think that was like a small part of it. She does say it. But her bigger point was really like you have GCSEs coming up and this is a big step for you that I do think that that can be a big emotional part of your life and he's quite young still and like she wants him to focus and get through GCSEs and study. And then when summer comes, he can have sleepovers with his boyfriend. So I just i felt like she was kind of justified.

So I feel like we get more of that conversation in the next episode, where in this episode, it was more like putting her foot down, not explaining where she was coming from, not explaining that it was an emotional step and that's why she was being worried. It was just very much like, no, you can't do this.

I saw her in this episode fighting shutting down and starting to say things like, this is a big step. You have GCSEs coming up like She did say those things in this episode

yeah 

but as soon as she starts shutting down, and this is a like this is very real and a and a good depiction of it, but like as soon as she starts putting her foot down at all, Charlie then gets very upset and triggered, and then he's shouting over her and then she gets heightened so she couldn't fully get that point across with the way that he immediately was like defensive.

I felt like she brought it on with like her wording, her tone. like She never came from an understanding tone. It was always like very overbearing, overprotective, like my answer is the final answer sort of tone. It was not from a like, I'm a mother caring. That comes in the next episode, but in this episode, that was not the tone that she was speaking in to him. So it's like, yeah, reasonably, you would shut down.

Mm

Because you know you're not getting anywhere when someone is speaking to you that way. Like you are talking to a wall.

I I read it as she started like with an edge and trying to be understanding and then he very quickly got defensive and then she very quickly got defensive and that's when she was really like putting her foot down and he left. To me it escalated it didn't start there because they were having a very sweet moment before that. They've come a long way by this point in the show, which we see like they just cooked dinner together and had a really great time. And then they're doing dishes like he waits until the perfect moment to ask her, which apparently was not the perfect moment. So I think she's been doing a lot of work on herself. And I didn't feel like she like snaps, but was a bit triggered by that loss of control over her son, which I think is also understandable when you know how much your son has been through and you're worried about his safety.

yeah i'm not saying i don't understand it i just don't i guess i don't have as much sympathy for the mother as you do and i don't 

That's also because she reminds me of my parents very much.

yeah, I don't know. I think like, cause she starts it out with, when he asks, she goes, yeah, you could do that eventually. 

Mhmm

Like she already sets it up as a wall. To me, the eventually is like, I'm going to be your breaker because when is eventually I'm not giving you a time. I'm going to be the decider. So that's where like, to me, I'm like, didn't really see it as understanding didn't really see it as her trying to like, connect with him. I do think the cooking dinner montage was great And that was a moment where you're like, Oh, you could see they're really bonding through all of this.

Mmhmm. 

um But this conversation to me, I just like saw as like, an explanation of like, why they have such a strained relationship.

See, I saw her initial response as she kind of like breathes and looks like she's struggling, but she says yes, hesitantly at first. And then she says eventually, which to me says like, if she were really still in like such a bad and controlling place, it would start with no. She's like, I know that this is something I have to let him do, but I'm not ready for it to happen yet. Because I don't think he's ready for it to happen yet, which I'm not saying she's perfect.

Yeah

And i'm I'm definitely not saying she's like doing everything right or doing this conversation right. I just felt like I understood her. but we should probably move on because we still have a whole nother episode to cover. So, also just in that, like, Charlie literally says, I'm not a child. And then throws a tantrum and leaves to his boyfriends, which I just, want like, I sympathize and empathize with both characters in the situation. Like, I think she is trying and she is imperfect, but he is also very imperfect and they're butting heads like, He's triggering her as much as she's triggering him in some ways and just saying I'm not a child and then storming out of the house was like the most childish thing that I think I've seen him do.

But he is a child and she's not.

Oh, I know, I know. But she is damaged and doesn't know it as much.

Yeah.

Without being as explicit as all of like Charlie's diagnoses, we learn a lot about Nick in this episode.

Mm-hmm.

he explains that he doesn't know who he is without Charlie, that he feels like with his sexuality, he like repressed a lot of his personality as a default, and still does oftentimes. It doesn't feel like he can talk to other people in the same way that he can, Charlie, which I'm like literally who is Tara. Nick

Yeah. I guess I just take the friends group as an extension of Charlie because there are moments with everyone in the friends group where you see him talk and act and behave in the way that he feels comfortable doing around Charlie. But when Charlie's not there, maybe a little bit less so. But yeah, you are right. You're like, dude, you and Tara are so close and relate to each other so much. What are you talking about?

I've seen someone say that Tara is just like one step ahead of Nick in like very similar journeys.

yep

And then after all of this, Charlie literally straddles Nick and then he gets consent about is this okay? And then pants drop on the floor and it's all very dramatic. And I'm like, you guys were just having a very deep conversation, but that's fine.

Yeah. Yeah, it also feels very like teenage emotions where you're like, oh, I hate my mom. Oh, I don't know who I am. Oh, let's fuck. Like it just

yeah 

you know.

Quotes. When Charlie comes over to Nick's, he says, I want to have sex with you. What's wrong with that? Which just was like, okay, put it, put it so bluntly. 

and when Michael and Tori are giving Charlie advice on how they think he should go about go having the sex sleepover, Michael walks up the stairs and goes, I hope you do get to have your sex sleepover.

Which, by the way, Charlie is not calling it a sex sleepover. Michael is calling it that

yes 

and we are calling it that.

yes.

Okay, episode eight.

Apart

Our final episode of the season.

I know.

we open up after the events of the previous episode with Nick and Charlie in bed, post sex bliss as Jess wrote it, I wrote it as post-coital, um, contemplating.

Which then I was like, are we scientists? Like, why why are we describing it this way?

I'm watching Grey's, okay? contemplating if it really counts as sex if they were just touching, which is a fun nod to like what they did and I'm like, did I need to know? But okay. Nick says he's gonna be going on the a college road trip or uni road trip soon with the girls and tells Charlie that all of his top choices are local, but he still doesn't know. And you can tell that Nick's not even sure saying that all of his top choices are local. And Charlie's also a little hesitant because he's like, oh, some of these schools are kind of far. also they get back to like, but anyway, that was fun and we're going to have to practice a lot.

When Charlie gets home his mom and him have a conversation where she apologizes about being overbearing and that she thinks a lot of this stems from her own mother um and the way that she was treated and even though she's trying not to be that she is turning into her mother which Charlie affirms she is not. She agrees to allow Charlie to stay over at Nick's, but with a compromise of waiting until the end of GCSEs. GSEs? GCSEs? I'm having a dyslexic moment, guys.

GCSEs.

It came out of my mouth and I was like, that doesn't sound right. At study hall, Charlie tells Isaac and Tao he had sex and there is a montage of them just like of a bunch of stuff. What?

I wrote of studying and boning and uni and drumming, but by uni I mean Nick looking at uni websites and being like, boohoohoo 

Okay okay 

yeah, and then drumming being like rehearsals and stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

and boning

Charlie says goodbye to Nick as he leaves for his college road trip, uni road trip, and he confirms with Nick that, or he confirms with Charlie that they'll be back in time for his performance at the fete. They go to Kent first, which is the one closest to Truham, it's only like 15 minutes away, and they all dislike it Because it's so close to home, but Nick is still kind of undecided because he's nervous about being apart from Charlie. Next up in their little road trip is Oxford where Nick and Imogen share a room together and She tells him, you know, I'm not even really sure that I ever liked you and also I'm not really sure I ever liked a boy and maybe I just like felt pressured to have a boyfriend because I'm a cool girl and that's what cool girls do 

Gay!

Yeah, and like Nick goes over to her side of the bed and like comforts her. It's very sweet. Despite being in Oxbridge, Tara decides she hates Oxford.

they all have a little picnic on the grass together, and Elle says that, oh, Tao let me know that you and Charlie have been keeping each other occupied lately. And Tara's like, Elle! what are you talking about? And Imogen's like, tell me everything I need to know. And then they take Nick to a drugstore and make him buy condoms and lube, which just is so embarrassing and funny, and I love it.

Yep.

The last uni that they tour is Leeds, and this is apparently, i don't I've never been to Leeds, guys. Let me know. It's apparently a gay paradise. There's rainbow flags everywhere. The tour guide is wearing a rainbow lanyard and Nick like is clearly already feeling more himself. He has ideas about what he would study. And then the tour guide has a partner who's on the rugby team and he's like, it's me, a gay man playing playing rugby. And so he's like clearly more lit up. that evening he looks at the distance between Truham and Leeds and it's four and a half hours driving so he clearly seems like uncomfortable or disappointed at that. On the way home, he shares that he's afraid to hurt Charlie and be so far apart from him. the girls say that like, well, what happens when Charlie goes to uni next year? And like, think for yourself, like you need to put yourself first.

Charlie is getting ready for the Fete and he's getting a little anxious in the mirror but we see him challenge on those thoughts and he chooses to wear a t-shirt and he like opens up the door and Tori's like, oh my god, who is he? um At the Fete, Michael comes up to the group and gets Charlie to help him find Tori because she's avoiding him because Michael brought up the like, what are we? Are we boyfriend girlfriend? And he doesn't really care. He was just like, we've been seeing each other for a while. I thought it was appropriate to like bring up this conversation. But like, we don't need to label it. But now Tori is avoiding him. So Charlie goes and finds Tori and like Michael's kind of off in the distance and Tori sees him and then like grabs Charlie's hand and drags them immediately to the Ferris wheel where she talks about how she just like feels like she doesn't feel anything. She doesn't have any emotions. And Charlie's like, you feel a lot and that you can channel some of like what you feel and the love and care that you have towards me elsewhere. Like you don't have to always be so concerned about me. I'm doing better now. And that it really encouraged Tori that like she needs other people to care about besides him. Like it just can't be him. And so then she goes and talks to Michael.

Nick and the girlies are stuck in traffic and are going to miss the start of the show with their ETA. And they rush. They show up mid-set, which appears to only be one song. Afterwards, they we just get like a cute montage of the group at the fair. Charlie's parents leave because also it was noted that Charlie left a voicemail for Nick that like he's going to spend the night at his place after. So they leave and his mom is like, it'll be okay. Afterwards, well not even afterwards, like mid-fair, Nick gets a horny look on his face and he and Charlie rush home to have a sleepover and they make out and Charlie takes off Nick's shirt and then he asks Nick to take his shirt off then we just get a montage of them having sex and then cuddling and then talking and then sleeping and more having sex and more cuddling and like just all of the things in the bed and then we end I can't I thought it was with Charlie kissing Nick on the forehead

I think you are right 

okay yeah because I think it's like Nick's sleeping into Charlie

Yeah. And he like leans over and gives him a kiss on the forehead. Yeah.

Yeah, and this feels like a very mature ending to the season because the two of them are both visibly naked, which we've never seen before because in all of the other montages and whatnot, Charlie has had his shirt on. yeah, that's the end of season three.

Yeah, a few other important plot points. Charlie moves his therapy to biweekly with Geoff.

Mmhmm.

He also fills out fills out the application to be head student. And Elle tells Tao that after the uni trip, is like, Not really into any of those colleges. I want to go to art school in Europe, like Berlin or Paris. And Tao is like a very, for Tao is like a very understanding of that. And it's just like, I need to get a job because my mom is not going to pay for international travel.

We love to see the growth. 

Yeah

I think that's been like the biggest theme of this season in particular, but I think also just if you look at all three of them, Alice is doing a really great job of especially for having so many characters I truly don't feel that there's any characters that are sidelined and each one of them has continued to grow in each season.

Yeah, it does make me I'm like, is it gonna get too big, but it feels great right now.

okay, you can go ahead. We're gonna start off with the mom and Charlie conversation

yeah 

and get this out of the way.

so When Charlie comes back and has the conversation with his mom, and you know she's like, I know I can be overbearing. I don't mean to be. And they really have this sweet heart to heart. And I actually think that moment, you know she's like, boyfriend sleepovers are a huge emotional step. And like are you ready for that emotional step? I think that entire conversation between the two of them is great. But then she poses, can you compromise with me and wait until after GCSEs? But it's not a compromise. That's what she wanted in the first conversation. So I'm like, don't pose you getting what you want as a compromise. it's not you're You're not compromising. You're just getting your initial want, which is fine. But then word it as, it would make me feel more comfortable if you waited until after GCSEs and this is why. Don't say, can we compromise on this? Because you're not bending. That's what you wanted in the first place.

I think maybe she feels like she's bending because what she really and truly wants us to say, you're too young, you can't do this. And she's saying, okay, I understand this is really important to you, but not yet, if please. But also in the end of, she's not compromising because she's saying, not until I'm ready. He's not compromising either because he literally stormed off from their conversation

Sure 

had sex for the first time, comes back and has this conversation and is like, yeah, we can compromise like that's okay, as if he didn't just go to bone town

Yeah, but their conversation is not about Bonetown. It's about a sleepover. He didn't leave and go have a sleepover.

Yeah, but the whole reason that she's all hellbent on the sleepovers is because it means sex. And then, right after that, we have a montage of him and Nick having sex all the time. 

sure But I'm not actually confident that the whole reason she's hellbent is because she thinks that it means they're going to have sex because in like episode two or whatever, we get the mention where she's like, when Charlie comes back in Nick's clothes and she's like, I know you guys are having sex. So I think she already thinks it's happening.

Well, she said, you're too young to have sex. And he said, we're not. And then she was like, I know, blah, blah, blah. But i don' I think she was probably talked down because tar Tori was like, you're making a big deal on nothing, blah, blah, blah. Like, I don't think she thinks that that's happening.

Yeah, I feel like that kind of leads up to the assumption that she assumed at least something was happening. So to me, like the sleepover is about the sex, but it's also about like sharing a night with a partner. So I'm like, he doesn't go and do that. He does go and have sex, but he doesn't sleep over.

I guess to me a mom wouldn't be that worked up over a sleepover if she already thought you were having sex because a sleepover is not as big Like you can have sleepovers with your friends. It's no big deal. Sex on the other hand is a big deal.

Sure, sure.

I really liked the conversation about how sex can be just touching. Again, I maybe didn't need that much information about our teenage sons' sex lives, but it is a very gay conversation because looking at sex purely as penetrative is quite heteronormative. sex is sex, baby. It's touching, it's feeling, it's groping, it's having a good time.

I liked the stark contrast between season two, where for GCSE Study Hall, Nick was forced to sit next to Ben the entire time Be quiet, no phones, Mr. Farouk being like a strict little butt. Meanwhile, Nick's Study Hall was just like sit where you

Charlie's 

or Charlie's Study Hall was just sit where you want They were all chatting, having a good time. I was like, who's in charge of this one?

Yeah, I saw some people on Twitter actually say that they didn't like that because they were like, why are the rules of study hall so vastly different? But then I saw other people be like, I just assumed that was like Mr. Farouk versus whoever's leading this one is probably more like Mr. Ajayi, like more chill and And ultimately they they blamed Alice for not explaining it like they could have used a line and realizing or recognizing that Alice needed it for plot purposes to have Nick and Ben sit together and have Charlie sit with his friends. I enjoyed it 

Yeah

and I also forgot those two things were supposed to be the same thing.

Oh, see, I noticed it immediately, which is why I took that note, but it didn't bother me. And also, who's not to say there wasn't a line, there wasn't a setup. I feel like there could have been a line or a setup that got cut, you know?

Yeah, true. Time is short. 

Yeah

Time is precious.

These eight 35-minute episodes for a whole season. Nick in the Girlie does my favorite dynamic and also the name of my future band, I think. I enjoy it very much. I enjoy him with his girlies getting condoms and lube. I enjoy them in the car when they are yelling at him. I enjoy their heart to hearts. He is a true ally of women.

Yeah. just the Nick and Imogen conversation. I really appreciated that like, Imogen feels comfortable enough with him to share like, this part of her that she's like now exploring and realizing. And like you can tell kind of like struggling with coming to terms with and like not really knowing who she is, which obviously we know Nick can relate to. Yeah, I really liked it. Because at first I was like, why the heck are Nick and Imogen sharing a room? But then when that conversation was set up, I was like, checks out, we needed this to happen.

Plus, Nick and Imogen have been friends from the very beginning, you know?

True 

They were friends before 

True

he ever knew Charlie or anyone else And she was one of the very first people he came out to in season two. So it is actually really beautiful symmetry. And I also love that they're friends. She's like, I don't know who I am anymore.
 
And he's like, you're my friend. 

Yeah

in that conversation. But also one of my favorite parts of it is that she is now the second girl to realize after crushing on Nick that she's a lesbian. You know, he may like the girlies, but they don't like him.

Nope. on this college trip, we get Imogen in glasses and I just loved it. I feel like this is us seeing her become more and more comfortable with herself. and maybe with like dressing down or just, yeah, like just being herself, being a little more relaxed, not always having to be so done up, not always having to be the cool girl and something about her in the big old glasses. I just like really loved that.

I thought they were such a serve and I wish that we had seen her in glasses before. also Imogen is rarely dressed down. She fucking slays it every time and I love her. She's a queen.

Yeah, she really is.

I thought it was really funny that like sometimes I forget that Nick is a himbo because of how well Kit plays him and how much like nuance he puts into him. But when you read the comics, Nick is a himbo and him needing to see literally a version of himself to want to go to a college to me felt very himbo nature that he's like, I cannot take a metaphor or a possibility I need to see that it can be done.

Yeah

And I can replicate it.

yeah, yeah.

I also need to know, like, is Leeds really that gay? Like, let me know, because it looked like I should go there.

yeah we get a rehearsal scene where Sahar admits the song is about Imogen. I don't really understand what the song was about. I couldn't tell you any of the lyrics. I couldn't like check out that this was about Imogen. But Sahar is very much like, this is not important, but they keep pushing her on it. And she's like, fine, it's about Imogen.

But that's not the point!

Yeah.

Yeah, I've seen only some people point out that the chorus of the song, the main line, is c'est la vie, and Imogen says that very dramatically when they're in Paris.

Okay.

I don't know what the rest of the words are though. And then also in that rehearsal scene we get this really cute moment where just like Isaac is in like a beanbag or a chair and then Charlie gets on top of him and and is like, I appreciate you so much. And then Tao's like, where is my love? And they're like, come here. And then there's just this like big pile of boys laying on top of each other. And I love it. I love it so much. I love a cuddle pile.

I loved it. It was very sweet friendship moment, especially the turnaround from like Isaac feeling so left out to this where like they were all including each other and prioritizing each other.

Yeah, speaking of the character growth in this season, that's something I really appreciate is that after like episode three, when Isaac says that they all kind of suck as friends lately, they really and truly do turn around and you see the friend group get back to that really supportive, loving friend group even better than we've seen them before.

Yeah, stronger.

kind of on this note, we see Charlie with Geoff in therapy saying he's realizing that he needs more people than just Nick, not to say that his relationship with Nick isn't strong, but he also needs his sister and his parents and his friends. And the The not slick editors then cut to Nick, who's worried about the distance between Leeds and Truham. And it just really highlights this level of codependency again that they have and that Charlie is actually getting over it in a more reasonable way than Nick is.

in the car on the way back to Truham after the uni trip when they all are like, oh, you really likes leads and he's sharing his concerns about being apart from Charlie, Elle is like, you have to stop being a people pleaser. like You need to think about yourself and what you want. like It's time for you to find out what you want. like And when she says that, Tara is kind of like, Elle. And Elle's like, no, he needs to hear this. And he does.

Elle's literally like, Nick, you are such a people pleaser. Like she says it so just harshly.

yeah Matter of factly, yeah.

Yeah, and I love it.

Yeah, me too.

the way that you said you worry sometimes about it getting bigger. One of the things I worry about is that Alice has said that Charlie and Nick do not break up.

Mm-hm.

they I'm pretty sure we've seen little comics of them in the future with like a house and a kid. And we don't know how the show and will end, but sometimes I worry about like if they do not break up, how do they grow as characters and also how do they stay together in a way that is still interesting to watch because they're learning so much so young. when When Nick is having this conversation with the girls and says he doesn't know who he is without Charlie, they suggest that maybe it's time to learn. And I think that that is a really great way to tell that story of like, you can be in a long distance relationship and not break up, but have that space to discover more about yourself and to put yourself first. I personally was in a long distance relationship for all of high school, and I really appreciated that. Even in the moment when I was in high school, like it wasn't always easy, but I figured that way I was able to focus on myself and my friends and my time in high school and not my relationship.

Michael has this big old rant which I kind of touched on in the summary where he's like, you know, I asked if we wanted to be boyfriend and girlfriend because I just naturally thought it was the right thing to do, but like labels are silly. And if she doesn't want to be, then I don't want to be. I just like want to keep doing what we're doing. And like now she's avoiding me. And he goes off for like a while and everyone's just kind of like looking at him and not reacting. And I don't even think he takes a breath.

No, and it's what we were talking about how he ah does not read social cues at all. Like he does, he's not friends with Charlie's friends. He just knows Charlie and he comes over and sits down in the middle of their table when they're in the middle of a conversation and has this full on rant that takes over the entire table and they're all just like, oh my God, what is going on? And Isaac looks so amused.

And I'm pretty sure he calls him Charles, too.

Probably.

He's like, Charles.

Yes.

So I didn't know this part that you wrote down.

Yes, so I guess to try to keep it. Well, I guess we're not really spoiler free. But in case people haven't read the graphic novels, I won't get into like too many details, but the Tori and Charlie conversation regarding what happened with Michael on the Ferris wheel, they do have a conversation in the graphic novel, Tori and Charlie in the Ferris wheel. That is all exactly the same. However, Instead of it just kind of being this like, I don't feel like Alice is clearly setting this up to become something more in a potential another season or maybe a solitaire spinoff. Who knows? But in the graphic novel, if you haven't read it, this is spoilers, so ignore it. Tori actually uses this time to come out to Charlie as asexual and a lot of fans resonated with that. And so were very disappointed that that was not included in that scene. And that it was instead very, very different because fans were like, I really, really identified with Tori in that moment. And then you just like took that away because you didn't include it. I think that Alice knows what they're doing. They're setting something up. Like, I'm not worried. But I just know that that was something I read a lot online.

Yeah, that's what I thought was the difference when I read your note about this because I didn't notice it at the time, but I have read the scene and I was like, I'm pretty sure she comes out as ace. I agree. Alice knows what she's doing. I also know that Alice wrote Solitaire, which if you don't know, Solitaire is the first novel of the entire series when they were 16, 17. Published it when they were 17. They're our age. That's crazy. And it followed Tori. Tori's the original main character. And in there, there were bits of Nick and Charlie. And Alice was like, who are these twinks? And then wrote the comic about them. But Tori's the original main character. And I think due to how young Alice was, and also just the nature of writing, Tori is definitely going to have the most of Alice in her. And Alice is Aroace. And so I don't expect that that's necessarily gonna change or if it does it'll be done so tastefully. I think what probably just happened is they already had a character come out as Ace this season and didn't want it to feel like that's like 

Yeah

the theme for this season 

Yeah

or like make Isaac's coming out overshadow Tori's you know, like they want to give Tori their own space.

Yep. Yeah, I completely agree. I thought it was intentional. And there are a lot of fans that think that too. There are just a lot who were like, you know, when I read the webcomic, I felt seen by this particular Ferris wheel scene, and then you took it away.

But you know what's beautiful is that they didn't because the webcomic still exists.

Yeah, true.

That scene still exists. It's just not the one that they put on the screen.

Yep.

Oh, I did write this. Sorry, screaming, crying, and throwing up about being Tori. So the conversation that they had on that Ferris wheel, um that was my also my other hitting way too close to home. Thank you so much, Alice. I would rather you didn't. All of the I don't feel anything and Charlie's like, Yes, you do. You feel so much. You just bury it really deep down. you didn't have to call me out like that. You didn't have to at me. I know this. That's why I'm in therapy and thanks, but no thanks.

Yeah. when they're trying to go to the fete but they're running late, all the girls are screaming at Nick to go faster. They're like, hurry. He's like, I'm driving the speed limit.

Loser, who drives the speed limit?

Me, I identify with Nick.

Oh god, in California?

Yeah.

I loved that even though Nick is running late, and he's so worried about running late, because he thinks Charlie needs him there, Charlie, while I'm sure he would have preferred Nick to be there when he comes on. He doesn't stumble at all. he We don't even get a moment where he's like, oh no, where is Nick? I don't know if I can do that. Nothing. There's no contemplating if he can do it. It's just like, oh, Nick's not here. That kind of sucks. But he gets on the stage and he performs. And I'm so proud of him because he's come so far.

Mhmm

Also, um I learned in an interview that that is Joe drumming at one point.

That's amazing.

in in an In one of the interviews, Joe makes a joke that Kit can't play rugby. And he was like, yes, I can. And then he's like, you can't drum. And he was like, yes, I can. Excuse you. I took lessons because of them I can drum exactly four beats. Thank you. And that is me in the show. I thought it was really funny that, yes, this is the first time we've ever seen Charlie in a short sleeve shirt, like literally ever 

Ever

that we've seen him out with his arms. But Nick shows up and he's like, you did amazing. And then he just looks at his arms and is like, oh my God, arms so hot, so sexy.

Yeah. Yeah. So you look so hot right now.

And on that vein, like, they don't even leave because everyone's leaving.

No, no.

They, like, are in line to buy something, and then Nick's just, like, giving Charlie horny eyes, and then they leave all their friends, and I just was like, guys?

Yeah, they give each other very much a like, oh, we need to get the fuck out of here. Look.

Yeah, no words need necessary.

Yeah. Getting into quotes, Tori on the Ferris wheel during that scene where Charlie is saying that, you know, she does feel he goes, don't use your or she goes, don't use your Geoff crap on me, which I loved. Also at the fete as they're rushing to get to the set on time And they're all running Nick in a kind of like side. It's like a background line is like Imogen if you can't run in those shoes take them off 

I didn't catch that. That's good.

It's so good because it's just she's not even that far behind the rest of the group But the fact that he like is like Imogen take off your shoes like hurry up and

And like he knows that about her.

Yeah.

I wrote down, we mentioned it already a couple of times, but I wrote down the best quote to me of the Michael rant, which is like, what does boyfriend and girlfriend mean anyway? I mean, they're just words we made up to label common experiences in relationships, 

Yeah

which is how I feel about everything Like everything is just a word that we use to label a common something and 

Yeah It's all made up. 

everything is fake.

Yep.

Everything everything is a social construct. 

Yep

We live in a society. And then also you mentioned in the summary when Elle tells Tao that he that she's she wants to go to art school in Europe. Tao is like, that's amazing. I need to find a job though, because my mom's not going to pay for international travel. I mean, she doesn't even pay for my bus fare to school.

yeah

And I'm like, I'm sorry, Tao's mom is incredible, but she's not paying bus fare?

also i'm like i'm pretty sure he gets free or at least extremely discounted 

Oh, is that a UK thing?

yeah because school also in the u.s if you're a student you got like not free but extremely extremely discounted bus fare that's why i always took the bus to high school

I did not know that at all.

Okay

Okay, that's our um season three notes on all of our episodes.

Yeah. We have just one shout out, which we kind of already touched on. So I don't know if we have much more to say here, but just Tara and Nick's friendship growth season one to season three and how they both are kind of each other in different moments throughout this season and the previous season is just like beautiful. I just, I don't know, to me, I know we've seen it in other seasons, but it just really stood out to me this season and I really, really loved it.

she is the first person that he comes out to after Charlie in the first season. And she comes out to him. And then, like I said, that it's it's a lot like she's one step ahead of him in like coming to terms with being out because she was like kind of stressed about it for a while and he was kind of stressed about it for a while and then getting anxious about uni and then getting anxious about uni and like it's not being able to talk to Darcy not being able to talk to Charlie like they have like very similar storylines and I really enjoy their friendship and seeing it evolve as they go through all of this and I love that As much as Tara needs to put herself first, she throws herself out into other people just like Nick does

Yeah

but she is the the one that we see the most explicitly Check in on Nick and be sure to be like, not just how we're Nick and Charlie, but how is Nick?

Yeah, like how are, yeah, she'll specifically ask him like, how are you doing? Yeah

She's a really good friend and I like, yeah, just love their dynamic.

Some stats for season three. Season 3 debuted on Netflix as number 1 in the UK. For reference, season 1 debuted as number 8. Season 2 also debuted as number 1. It was number 4 on the top 10 global Netflix TV programs, with 4.5 million views in the first week. But I want to really stress here, by first week, the show dropped on a Thursday. So in three days, it got 4.5 million views. it also debuted with a hundred percent Rotten Tomatoes score. It is still a hundred per percent for critic reviews and 95% on audience. So like so, so, so well received as a season as it should be. It's beautifully done.

as are they all. But yeah

Yeah.

Some fun facts. I know they've said in interviews that part of why there's such a tonal shift in this season where now they are swearing. They didn't used to swear. Now they're swearing very comfortably to the point where at Charlie's birthday party, there's a banner that says best fucking day ever. And they're also having sex and they're also drinking quite a bit. That was something I saw a lot of people be like, I think it's funny how they're all alcoholics now. Whereas in the past two seasons, we hardly saw any of that. And they were criticized for that sometimes. And other times people loved it. I don't know how people feel about the tonal shift, but but one of the things I've seen Joe and Kit say is like, you know, when we started out, we were very close in the age to the characters. and so it felt quite natural now that we're older. It probably would feel less natural knowing who we are portraying these characters to continue to do the show that way.

Yeah 

And like that's why it made more sense to to make it more mature this season.

Yeah.

But how do you feel about the change?

I felt like it felt natural. Like it didn't feel, like obviously it's a huge tonal shift, but also like they're preparing to go off into uni. Charlie is 16 is prepping for like sixth form. Like I feel like they're in that latter half of high school where like, things are a little bit mature. You do have friends that are having sex. You do you are going to parties. like These things feel very natural for that age. So I felt like it just felt like them growing up. like that That is what happens at that age.

I think the only things that were a little strange to me were like the fact that they basically never swore versus they swear quite a bit in this one. 

Yeah

That didn't feel unnatural because I swear like a sailor and I did at that age

Yeah

but it was just like in comparison to what where they had been. I think the sex actually like happened quite naturally. The way the intimacy in their relationship evolved, that felt like the pacing was good. But the weirdest one to me was the drinking because We hardly see them drink in the previous two seasons. They drink a bit they drink for Darcy's birthday or Tara's birthday in Paris And they had seemingly hadn't really drank much before because they were like unfamiliar and giggly about it. But then come Halloween, especially, Nick's drinking like this is a very, very common thing. Like everyone looks very comfortable with it, especially him. And I'm like, this looks like a 21 year old man, you know?

See that part felt the most normal to me because I'm like oh yeah yeah this is like the end of the school year before you go off to uni like of course you're going to house parties and drinking and like I know that's not every high schoolers experience but I think that it is quite Like, it is a common experience.

I agree. I think it's the level of of how natural it was for him, that there was no hesitation or anything. That's the part that felt a little strange to me.

I took it more as like drowning in alcohol because I don't want to be here and I haven't talked to my boyfriend in a month and I don't know what's going on. Like that's more how I took the Halloween scene. So I didn't see it as like natural drinking because he's just used to drinking all the time. I saw it more as like a coping mechanism.

I guess in my brain, you don't reach that coping mechanism if you aren't comfortable drinking naturally.

Yeah, that's fair.

But, but ah you know, everyone's different and I just didn't have that high school experience also. so Also, in an interview, this is just like a cute fun fact I had. They were asked, Co and Jit, as I was about to say, Um, Joe and Kit were asked by an interviewer about what they were like, heartstoppers, is a huge cultural moment for a lot of young queer people. What were big cultural moments for you and your queerness and sexuality? And Joe was like, well, going off about politics and how we grew up at a time when everyone was like getting their rights. They were like 10 when people got the right, when gay marriage was legalized and stuff like that. And that was really big considering now it feels like rights for being stripped away. And then Kit just like so sweetly was like, Heartstopper was a big cultural moment for me.

Yeah.

That was his answer. And I was like, okay, very different to the politics, but also like, yeah, different paces. And as we all know, he came out earlier than he would have liked to after being in this show and all of that so

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

I also had another one that I forgot to write down here but was from Kizzy Edgel who plays Darcy about how he knew he was non-binary at the start of season one and was going through it very much but with their gender and there were conversations with Alice from the very beginning about What does this mean for Darcy? And he's always had a big say in Darcy and put a lot of himself into Darcy. And Alice gave them a lot of leeway as well because they weren't ready for any sort of identity Like they they were still figuring themselves out. They weren't ready to put that onto Darcy and then had a lot of say in Darcy's storyline in this season, which I thought was really sweet.

Yeah. if this is starting to get renewed for a fourth season, I will be very, very, very, very sad. Amanda notes a little bit later that like we are running out of source material and that is some fans concern is that Alice has openly spoken about how the rest of the graphic novels is going to take about 18 months to finish. that just started releasing on October 1st. And so that puts us quite far into the future that like realistically, if they were to renew, does that mean we don't get a season four until like 26, 27? You know, so regardless, I still want Netflix to renew it. And I really I want this story to be finished out. Like this is such a good show. Like clearly people are watching it. It really, really should be renewed. um But it does like lend a lot of questions of like, will she write that material first so the series can come out before the graphic novel or will she wait? i don't Yeah, it just leaves a lot of questions.

Or you know what a lot of people want and could very much be a possibility is the events of season three led right up to the start of solitaire. And we could have a solitaire moment while Nick and Charlie's story is being finalized.

Yeah. But to me, that would be its own show. But yes, I would take that.

Yes. Yeah, a lot of people want like a spin-off or a movie for it. We'll see what we get. I agree I want it to be renewed. I know Alice has said very, very recently that she's aware that the fans really want news as soon as possible and they're working as hard as they can to finalize things but don't want to speak too soon. I personally don't...see, okay, here's the thing. I understand production, people in production, people who are acting, everyone needs to like move on with their lives. And I get that. I just think that I don't want the story to be wrapped up. And I'm not saying I want Heartstopper as it is now to go on annually forever. I think that's dumb and not dumb, but unattainable I just think it would be like, sweet because Alice loves to write extra like stories sometimes and clearly is always sort of living in that world even their other books take place in that world with other characters. If like five years from now we got like another special with another time jump where they come back you know and just like we get to check in with Nick and Charlie every so often. I would love that. Personally, I don't think that like Joe and Kit could necessarily do that because of their careers, but I also could see a world where they did because of how much like how grateful they are for Heartstopper.
 
Yeah, I think there is a world in which right like there's short films or spin-offs or things like that that continue into the future or that like more of Alice's Stories get told other than Heartstopper But I think that like to give us three beautiful so seasons and to not be able to finish out everything from the graphic novel would be a shame like even though it's still yet to be written like i want i want all of that story on screen 

Yeah, I agree with that. I was thinking like as novellas happen and stuff that are beyond just the standard graphic novels. I would like all of the graphic novels on screen as well.

Yeah

If they weren't done, though, I mean, if they were done, if we were done fully, this isn't a bad place to end, which is nice.

yeah

It doesn't feel incomplete. We just know that it's incomplete.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you're totally right.

Mm hmm.

It is like a lovely ending of a season. it's Yeah, just a truly beautiful season.

especially because our characters have come so far. like The only thing that I would feel disappointed in at this point, if we ended, would be not knowing what Nick does.

I'd be disappointed with not knowing what Nick does. I'd also be disappointed about what's going on with Sahar and Imogen.

I could live without that. like I love them

Yeah

but they're not main characters.

Sure.

I feel like Charlie's at a place where I could accept it.

Yeah, fair. I think that's fair. do you have any predictions?

Hey, I wrote this.

I know. I'm posing it to you.

I wasn't prepared to answer yet. I wrote it to ask you. Do I have any predictions? I think Nick is going to go to Leeds I've heard he and Nick, he and Charlie fight in the Nick and Charlie novella, but I also heard that that was written a long time ago and there's been multiple rewrites and people are like, I don't want to adapt it the way that it is because they like go to a party and they fight and Nick calls Charlie mate and then they don't talk for two weeks.

Oh my god.

I know.

I don't want that to happen.

I truly don't know what Charlie's gonna do. Like long term, I feel like Nick will go to Leeds and Charlie will go somewhere else.

Yeah, I agree.

And they will probably be long distance for like five years or so.

Yeah.

I think Imogen and Sahar are gonna end up getting, getting together. I heard Tao and Elle broke up in the original Nick and Charlie novella, and that was rewritten out so they get back together.

Okay.

And I also can't see them breaking up right now unless they have unless Elle has a big, like, I need to go to Europe by myself moment, which I could see happening.

Yeah, I could see them being the couple that takes a break. But then like gets back together.

I don't need every couple to get back together, but but they are sweet.

Yeah, I agree. In general, I don't in this universe. I'm like, I love everyone so much. And I feel so attached to all of them that I just want them to be happy forever. You know?

Fair. We know Tara, we know Darcy is taking a gap year

Yeah

and Tara is now considering it, apparently but But what are your predictions for everyone, but especially them, because they're the ones I'm least certain about

So based on where the graphic novel currently leaves off, which we don't see as much in this season, Tara is very much like a dancing degree, dance school, pursuing dance professionally. And so I see a world in which that comes out, but we haven't had any conversations to get there. So I'm like, does Nick bring that out of her? Does Darcy bring that out of Tara, like how do we get Tara to a point where she pursues her creativity and pursues dancing for like long term? I feel like that is where she's going to end up. And we don't know based on the novel, we just hear her questioning it.

That makes me wish even more that we got more dance scenes with her before this season.

I know, I know.

But I agree. I could see that for her with how this season set her up with being so panicked about school and clearly like doing all of these really impressive things, being prefect, doing Oxbridge and like clearly not enjoying it.

Yeah.

Anything else for predictions and stuff?

Mmmmmm No.

What about Isaac? What do you think Isaac's gonna do?

I don't know.

I feel like he's gonna

He's gonna go on to write a graphic novel about his best friends and call it Heartstopper. Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, right. I feel like he's gonna go to uni somewhere. Well, he's still in school, but eventually he'll go to uni somewhere and I feel like he'll work in a bookstore and just be like a bookish little dude. That's my future.

I could see Isaac and Charlie going to the same uni 

Mmm mhmmm

and and Tao going somewhere else for film. Tao's clearly on the route of like film production.

I could also see Tao potentially following Elle because that feels like a kind of him thing but she wouldn't want him to.

No, I think she would break up with him to make sure he didn't.

yeah yeah

We're getting so far now. I guess we need to stop at some point.

Yeah, the only other thing which we've touched on, but I just have to say it to wrap up this episode. Alice Osman is a genius. This season is so well done. Every single season has been so well done, but I have no notes. It exceeded all of my expectations. I'm just so glad that teenagers have this show to watch at their age and to see this representation on screen and to see just like these beautifully told stories like I just cannot get over that. Alice is our age. I'm like, what have we done? Look at them go.

I know. Alice is literally on the vision board above my head right now holding the Heartstopper clapboard and like you said just like such a truly talented individual and also so wonderful in the way that they work in that you can tell that she's so respectful of everyone 

Yes

and that's like the point of Heartstopper and seems to be the ethics that go into the production of it. And also the fact that they've repeatedly said they've been really stressed out about getting everything done in time and like production on these shows is only about a year and a lot of times, especially with this season, not all of the the comics were done yet when they went into production and like she's had to write a lot really fast and is still managing to produce a season that's this high quality.

Good.

Yeah, that's impressive.

Yeah. ah Yeah. She's a genius.

I need to be her.

Yeah. Literally. Like, how?

Sorry, I had one other thing I thought of. I know we're way over time, but I just wanted to point out or shout out that Recently, Alice has been doing some interviews at TIFF, which is like the Toronto International Film Festival. It's quite large. Her and one of the producers or directors they were asked about Kit and Joe's casting and elaborated on how Kit originally auditioned for Charlie and was surprised when they recommended Nick. Joe stood out the most for the Charlies because everyone else played Charlie in such a like shy and and fragile kind of like scared way um And I think also that would be the same for Nick so like he could so easily be a himbo and like reading the comics You can't really tell to me, but Alice always knew that Charlie has a quiet strength behind him and that Joe has always portrayed him that way. And I think Kit also does a great job portraying Nick as not just being a silly, goofy, supportive boyfriend, but having a lot of layers to him and vulnerability to him.

Yeah.

And I just think both of them give such nuanced portrayals that even if when you have incredible source material like Alice does, there's still so much of their craft that's going into that.
 
Yeah.

Just very grateful for everyone involved in the work that they do.

Yeah. Yeah, the casting choices like were just perfect. Like it's just, it's literally perfect. It's so well done.

Oh!

Truly.

Okay.

With that, up next is I don't know, because I didn't write it down and I don't remember, but I'm sure it's going to be something exciting. i We have another music episode in the works. Maybe it's that. Oh, actually Up next, we are covering a very, very exciting favorite dcom of both Amanda and I's. We will be covering Halloweentown, so look forward to that. Also, please rate and review us on Spotify and Apple podcasts, as well as follow us on all of our social media. Nineties Babies nostalgia on Instagram and YouTube spell out the word nineties, but use the numbers on TikTok comment and DM us because we love to hear from you. And with that, bye.

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