sabrina carpenter musical deep dive: meteoric rise to the mainstream

The second part of our deep dive into everyone's favorite bite-sized pop star, Sabrina Carpenter. We're going album by album, discussing the changes in musicality, each album's impact on her career, what what was going on in her personal life at the time. In this episode we're covering Emails I Can't Send and Short n' Sweet. 

Send us your favorite Sabrina Carpenter song at the links below, and don't forget to rate & review. 

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Chapters

• 0:00 intro
• 3:16 emails I can't send
• 46:12 short n' sweet
• 1:22:38 game, final thoughts, outro

Transcript

Get home from school turn on my TV who are these friends staring right back at me now that we're older- 

Hi, I'm Amanda.

And I'm Jessica, and this is 90s Babies Nostalgia, where two fully grown millennial women re-listen and sometimes listen for the first time to our favorite artists from the early 2000s and sometimes from more recently.

Just to be clear, we are not sponsored by nor affiliated with anything that we're talking about, not the artists, producers, labels, etc. We just really like talking about music and today we are talking about Sabrina Carpenter! This is our part two, we are picking up where we left off from part one. So if you haven't listened to that already, go back and listen to it. We covered all of her four Hollywood Records albums, which is her like Disney label. And in this second part, we're going to be covering obviously her like, ascent her rapid ascent into the mainstream with emails I can't send and short n sweet so
 
And if you're more familiar with this part of her career as I was, I would still highly recommend you go listen to our first episode to familiarize yourself with how much she has actually done because I think it brings a lot more context to this episode and her true like rise to stardom because it's not quite as quick as like the media would like us all to assume it was.

Yes, I think the part that she reached just now was very quick, but she put in the work for that to be possible.

Yes, yes.

Like a quick aside related to this sort of, I've been seeing on Twitter recently a clip of Dove Cameron. She covered Lil Nas X she did like a great like BBC live lounge probably is that kind of a cover 

Okay

of one of his songs and people were like Dove Cameron deserves like the success and recognition of Sabrina Carpenter because she's very talented and I've seen the take that I agree with which is like Girl deleted all of her own music after Boyfriend did kind of okay. like You can't put in that work and then delete it all just because you like don't really like it like Sabrina has this whole catalog that even if she doesn't want to perform these songs anymore, they're there for people who are new fans to go find and like become bigger fans. like You need to have that work out there for people so That was my my two cents.

Also, yeah, yeah, i I could go on a spiral on that conversation, which is not related to Sabrina. But yes, you need to own your work as an artist and own the growth and the changes that you have gone through in your career, like getting rid of it. I feel like it's not the sign of a true artist.

Yeah and a lot of times she says that she might not like it anymore but she recognizes that a lot of fans do so 

Yep

she has respect for that. So that was all to say like it's worth listening to our our other episode and worth listening to those albums but we have two more hefty hefty pieces of work to cover.

Yeah, yes. And we are going to kick it off with emails I Can't Send, which was released July 15th of 2022. As we already mentioned, this was her first album released off Island Records. So this is her shift from Hollywood to Island. It had 13 tracks, a runtime of just under 40 minutes. Four additional tracks were released on emails I can't send forward, which was the deluxe edition of the album in march on March 17th of last year. Oh, not of last year now. On March 17th of 2023, including Feather, And that brings the runtime to about like 55 minutes with those additional tracks. In this album, which is a change from previous albums, is she is working with a lot more New York producers and songwriters after she moved there. um So in this album, one of the huge collaborators on this is Julia Michaels, both as a producer and a songwriter.

I adore Julia Michaels. I love her so much. I love the music she writes. I love her own music. I wish she came out with more. She's super prolific. If you don't know who she is, like literally just Google it. You'll find that she's written all of your favorite pop songs.

All of them. Like, that's not even an exaggeration. um As well as J.P. Sax, John Ryan, and Leroy Clampett. She also had two solo songwriting credits on this album, which is a shift from the previous albums. She has always been heavy on the songwriting in all of her albums, but to have two solo credits is I think a first for her. And those are on emails I can't send and how many things. And this was, which again I think marks this like shift off Hollywood, shift away from Disney onto a new label. She's now 21 or 22 at this point. It is her first album to be considered explicit.

And it do be explicit.

It do. The vibes of this one is pop, folk pop, a couple dance pop hits in there but really I would say your true pop, folk pop is this entire album. The album is themed around emails and messages she wrote but did not send and she referenced Dolly Parton in many interviews as a huge influence on this album.

And you can hear it.

In certain tracks, I'm like, holy shit, the dolly is coming through, which I love. But yes, you can definitely hear it. Her singles and music videos. So before we get into the music videos and singles associated with emails I can't send, we do have to touch on Skin, which was a standalone single released January 22nd, 2021. It was her first single released on Island Records, so this was really big for her because this was the first time her fans could really see who she's going to be outside of Hollywood and what she will be able to do, as well as this song was a response to Driver's License by Olivia Rodrigo, which was released two weeks prior.

and blew up as you all know as you as you lived it because I'm assuming you're more than three years old. like We were a year into the pandemic and that song came out and it was everywhere.

Everywhere.

It was inescapable. and suddenly everyone and like no one cared about any of the three people involved 

No

until this song came out and it like hit everyone's nostalgia just right and there was just one line in there that identified exactly what situation it was about which then blew up Sabrina's life.

Yeah, which I find funny and I couldn't fully fact check this, but I did find a couple fan articles plus interviewers with the songwriters associated with driver's license that the original line actually was brunette and not blonde, and then Olivia chose to switch it to blonde. Again, could not fully fact check it, but thought that was interesting.

And then in skin, Sabrina has a line, maybe blonde was the only rhyme.

Yes, which I thought was, yeah, yeah fun. Before we get into all, we'll we'll touch more on this, but Skin did debut at number 48 on the Billboard Hot 100, and it was her first entry into the Hot 100. As we touched on our previous episode, she did get a couple singles that in landed on the bubbling under the Hot 100, but this was her first time actually on the charts. It also reached number 12 in Ireland and number 30 in the UK, which I just thought it was funny because I'm like, oh, were they like more hot for the driver license drama than the US? if you listen to it, I think you would say it is in direct response to Driver's License. It's very pointed that it came out two weeks after the songwriters who wrote on Skin also said that the song was written really quickly and released really quickly. Though in interviews, Sabrina said the song was a long time coming. It's referencing multiple things, not just this one relationship or one experience and that it's a lesson to not give people so much power over your feelings and that she does not see the song as a diss track that it's not calling out one person. I think timing and other interviews you can question the true intentions behind that but regardless

I think it's at least the way that I've heard a lot of people interpret or understand the song is it's about that situation, but it's less about Olivia than it is about all of the people who are like sending Sabrina death threats and like 

Yeah

trying to tear her down like more about the people hating on her on the internet.

Yes, yeah. i I think it makes sense that the song could be about multiple people, multiple situations, and the fan reaction 

Mhmm

versus just Olivia. But I also think some of the interviews that you watch, Sabrina, trying to cover up some of the aftermath of this song, I'm like, girl, your songwriter came out and said that the song was written really quickly and released really quickly. So, like, yeah there is some of you that just has to own that. Like, yes, this was a response song. And it it was kind of backtracked and not owned. And I don't know, maybe that was a PR choice that she was told to make or that she thought was best. I kind of like the narrative better if she was like, yes, this was a direct response and it was the only way I knew how to process. Like

But, I think you got to avoid a lawsuit, right? 

Yeah, sure

And at no point did Olivia ever name anyone

sure 

including in her own press.

sure.

she's To this day, she's never named anyone. Sabrina's never named anyone. I think Joshua Bassett has kind of, but just because he like but ah his career is so much smaller and also he had so much stress, he had like a heart attack or something 

Yeah

after all of this was going on. but I want to bring it back to what we were talking about in the singular era. If you did or did not listen to that episode, that's when Sabrina first really got involved in her songwriting and said she fell in love with songwriting. And that's also I mentioned when she said that she started to feel like her vulnerability in music was like the only choice, like

Yeah

she would rather be vulnerable than be quiet when it came to telling her own stories. And I think that that that level, you know, she had Sue me, which was a huge song 

Yep

about a huge situation in her life telling her side of the story. And so indirectly, I think that like those foundational experiences were necessary for her to then come out with skin so quickly. And I just think that like, She has a transitional single in between each album, and Skin ended up being that one. But it was like so perfectly done. 

Yeah

like People will say that Olivia made Sabrina's career, and that's not true in any case.

No.

But I think if Sabrina weren't the artist she were, she wouldn't have been able to respond in a classy way and in a quick way. And doing that did help like snowball her career for sure.

Mhmm mhmm Yeah, totally. I don't know, I guess the very like blunt upfront confrontational part of me and I understand what you're saying with like lawsuits and you can't necessarily name people because then is that defaming them and right, there's other things involved. I love a situation in which she is like, this is direct response to you, Olivia, screw you. But like, I get that that's not something she could necessarily do. So I do think this was the best way to go about it.

Yeah, she also is probably being advised by her team given the fact that she has already been sued.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you want to touch on the music video?

It's her and Gavin Leatherwood, who was fresh off of the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which came out or just ended in 2020. And this came out in 2021. He's so hot. He's so hot. And it's literally just the two of them like having a relationship in a house while inclement weather happens. Like sometimes it's raining on them. Sometimes it's snowing. It just gets more and more dramatic.

okay

She also performed this on The Late Late Show with James Corden, which again, we mentioned in the previous episode that I think that he provided a platform for a lot of her early music.

Totally. Now getting into the lead single off emails I can't send, which was Skinny Dipping, it was released both the song and the music video released together on September 9th, 2021. I think this is important to note because Hollywood never did that for her.

What do you mean?

Hollywood never let her release a music video with a single. it always came months later. 

Oh

And to let an artist release give them the money to release the single, promote the single, and film and shoot a music video, you're showing that you have a lot more trust in the artist to perform.

That's stupid to me. Like, the song obviously isn't gonna do as well if there isn't a video.
 
I agree, This music video, she's writing a letter to herself throughout the video, multiple letters to herself throughout the video. She's folding them up and she's putting it in this little box that's labeled this too shall pass. And then at the end of the video, she's kind of like dancing in the streets of New York City barefoot in this like beautiful green dress. She looks gorgeous. And she's throwing all the letters in the air. I think there's a lot of symbolism in this video, which slipped through my brain when I watched it twice because I was like, I feel like I missed something and then I watched it again. And I'm like, I'm still missing something, but I like it as a video.

Yeah, you get to see the start of her looking a bit more mature, sounding a bit more mature. She has more of her like usual like makeup look. Just the blush isn't quite as dark, but it's still noticeable.

Totally.

But then she's like way more current. She's in modern clothes, a modern setting. It feels more casual. The vibes were there. What was supposed to be achieved, I don't understand. And I think the part that I was most confused by, and she does this

Mmhmm.

twice once in this album once in the next is she like does a double single where they're like leading into each other so at the end of this video it's to lead into the next single and you hear it start to play but for that she lays down on the ground next to a chalk outline of a body in her slip dress and i just didn't understand that like i understand it's leading into the next single but i didn't understand it in the context of this video at all

When I first saw that scene, I was like, is this like a notebook parody to like the scene where she lies down in the notebook in the middle of the street? Then I was like, no, because nothing else lines up with that and that makes no sense. And it's still, I agree with you. it's a weird It's a weird thing to add in. Again, I think there's symbolism that we we just need someone to talk us through so we can understand it. Because I'm like, I don't get a lot of this. This song is also rumored to be about Joshua Bassett. Also, this song and music video was huge because in the music video, there's a shot of a Scrabble board and the Scrabble board has emails I can't send on it. And so it was an Easter egg leaking the album's title.

I think of this song a lot because the intro is so iconic and it's really just like the the lyrical style of the verses where she's like speak singing there's a clip of her on Fallon who when this was the lead single he he mentioned it he was like who just writes like that he like with her there he was like It'll be a Wednesday. and like you're just what What is going on? like You're just singing. Shannon's being Shannon. Or you're just speaking. Shannon, you'll ask me how my sister's doing and I'll be like, Shannon's being Shannon and we won't harp over this. blahblahblah like It's so weird, but it works so well.

yeah, like that is the folk of it all, right? And that's what makes this album, to me, such a beautiful album, is that every single song is a story. And she's telling it so beautifully, and it doesn't feel like it's being forced to be fit into a structure of how a song is supposed to flow. It just feels like she is singing to you a story. And for those two and a half minutes or three minutes, you get to really dive into this little story. And it's so beautiful. And it's those moments like Shannon's just being Shannon, like, it's a line that like any other person would be like, why are we writing this into a song?

And Shannon is the name of one of her sisters.

Next up, which I know Amanda loves this one, which is great because ah I don't know if I feel the same, but the second single is Fast Times, which was released February 18th, 2022. The video is a sequel to Skinny Dipping, as we mentioned, and it is inspired by Charlie's Angels. The song is great. The music video, probably my least favorite of her newer ones. All the boring ones that we discussed in the first episode. Those aside, but all these interesting ones with stories. I didn't love this music video.

I like this one better than skinny dipping.

Oh, I didn't feel the same.

At least I know what's going on in this one. I could see the symbolism. Okay, when I said justice for fast times in our notes, I didn't necessarily mean the video. I do mean the video, but I also mostly mean the song. I just think the song is really good. 

It is 

I think it should have been bigger than it was. It's one of her like least viewed videos of her last two albums. like this is a top 40 sounding song to me. I like to bop to it. I enjoy the video. Like you said, it's a parody of Charlie's Angels. It's just her in various crime scenarios. 

Yeah

When she starts off and she has like long straight black hair, she kind of is giving Billie Eilish somehow. And then when she's in her blonde era, in like the second verse, she's definitely giving a parody of Brittany with like some I'm a slave for you ah elements in it.

Yep.

I like that there's dancing in this. We mentioned in the previous one, she does dance. A lot of people don't know that. And I was like, I can't find out how. And then right after we recorded that episode, I watched an interview where she said her mom's a dancer and she's been dancing since she was four. So that's how. So she dances in this one, which is fun. I do have to say there the last scene is her going through like a room.

I think this is what threw me out of it. I think this is what threw me out of the video and I just it couldn't recover from there.

The last scene is like so bad it's camp. like It's so funny because it's her trying to get through a room full of lasers, but she's literally just like arching her back and then also looking around the lasers, but like clearly not. and it like It's so badly done

Yes, yes

but it really made me giggle.

That's where I was like, I don't think I like this video at all.

But the rest of it, when she has like the blonde Britney wig and the pink top and she's like dancing, it's so good.

in addition to those two singles, she was also given three additional promotional singles for this album, including Vicious, Because I Like to Boy, and Nonsense. Because I Liked A Boy has a music video that I particularly enjoyed. This is the last, as far as I'm aware, of the additional songs about the entire Olivia Rodrigo, Joshua Bassett situation. The music video is her at a circus and seemingly she is in the circus. And as the music video continues, like the scenes of the circus get like darker, the colors turn darker, there's some like emotional parts, like it just, yeah, it gets dark. But in a I really liked it. I thought it was a fun symbolism of the song.

As it gets dark, they turn on her. they start attacking her. I've always been confused and curious. I'm not mad. I don't not like the video. I do. And I do think it starts to get into her like more vintage era of styling that we know her for. I just like, I think a circus is a really interesting setting for a video of a ballad. There's no uptempo. Cause when I think circus vibes, I think more like Britney Spears circus,

Mmhmm.

which is so uptempo because circuses are zany but i also do get the like metaphor of like 

Yeah

the entertainment industry and fame and all of this is a circus like i get that 

And I think also like the situation in which the song was written about probably felt like she was in a circus 

like we're all just clowns

Yeah, to be going through that. So I think it's metaphor of also the situation that the song was written about.

I think it would have been funnier if she were a clown instead of a hot girl.

Okay.

Like a real a real performer and not just like a ring girl.

Yeah.

I do think that the video is very, very funny because it is a blatant Samsung ad.

Yep.

And we know she's been partnered with Samsung already for a little while but at this point in her career. Why is this notable? Because it ends up in the videos where like mid video, she has a Samsung flip phone. And then at the end of the video, she's on a train watching this video on a Samsung laptop.

And not just like, oh, she's watching it on a Samsung laptop. No, no, no, we zoom in to the Samsung logo on the laptop. So that is it the entire screen for about an entire second. And I was like, was this necessary? Like we already got that it was an ad. I didn't need you to zoom in on the logo for a whole second.

I will say they probably paid her a lot because the production value of the videos, her best thus far in her career. like Not to today, but to this point when it came out.

For sure, Last to touch on of these promotional singles is Nonsense, which peaked 50 on the Hot 100. It reached the top 10 on US pop airplay and it went certified platinum. This just I feel like skin leading into the release of these promotional singles nonsense really then like, I feel like catapulted her into this album being something to look out for. It was very smart to put it on as a promotional single. I really think it's what got critics and what got people being like, oh, maybe this is a girl who like knows what she's doing. We should listen. 

nonsense is a crazy thing to me. Because I think Skin and coming out with an album within the year got her like on the Eras tour and stuff like that. And then nonsense and the way that the outros happened on tour and the way that that blew up on social media got her to where she is now with Short n' Sweet. But, like, everything about recording nonsense that she said, like, she literally just had writer's block and was in the studio just fucking around. Like, when she says at the end of the the song, like, that one's not going to make it

gonna make it, yep. 

she was like, literally none of that was, like, supposed to be on the album. She was just supposed to be getting through the writer's block and for it to blow up and be one of the biggest songs of her career, probably the second to espresso. like I think it so perfectly encapsulates like her sense of humor and songwriting style.

Songwriting style yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I think this, yeah, it was a very, again, I think a very smart promotional single because we see this songwriting style throughout the rest of this album. The songwriting style also continues in the short n' sweet. So to kind of introduce people to this really fun way that she writes songs and chooses to kind of like speak sing as we noticed, but to really just like, it feels intimate. It almost feels like you shouldn't be hearing these thoughts of hers.

Yeah, because it's just with her friends. I have this for our notes later down, but since we're already on it, the part where she, in the chorus, feels so good I had to hit the octave. And she goes up an octave. She said in interviews, she was like she just did that randomly in the studio. She's like, this would be like the dumbest and funniest thing ever. And it's truly just like bragging like I'm a singer so good I can like jump a whole fucking octave And it's hilarious.

Yeah.
 
Yeah, it feels very intimate. As you said, I also love the video because it's very simple. It's just them at a house party. It's her and her friends. But it's like her and her friends with like interest in these guys. But all three of the guys are her and her two friends as guys dressed as guys.

Mhmm

And I love when female artists do this little mix has a video like this. And it's just like so funny because they play like the campiest fuck boys ever. And

Yes!

And it just it makes me giggle and like literally to the point where her her male Sabrina's male counterpart was wearing a hat that says dipshit on it 

Yep, yep

I just love videos like that she was like this song is nonsense so the video is gonna be nonsense

Yes, yeah, I like that the video complemented the silliness of the song because the video also felt very silly, but in the best way. Last of the singles is the Deluxe Edition. Also had a single to promote it, which was Feather. It peaked number one on the US Pop Songs charts, number 21 on Hot 100, which was her highest charting songs on both charts, plus her first Top 40 hit. The music video was released on October 31st, 2023. She's just a fucking badass in this video.

Yes.

She's like covered in blood. She's like enticing men to like kill each other, but also she's like almost like strangles someone in an elevator. Like I don't, she's just like a bad ass and like owning her sexuality in this video.

It's really awesome. I loved it.

Not almost. She does.

Yeah. yeah

And that someone is Milo Mannheim, who's the lead in zombies and is also in school spirits. So he's a familiar figure for people who are watching Disney Channel shortly after Sabrina's time. I know that Feather's on the deluxe edition of emails, but I do think that it serves as the transitional single between emails in Short n' Sweet. Espresso is her biggest song ever, Thumbs shortly thereafter, but we're not going to talk talk about Thumbs. Nonsense got her viral, and then Feather is the first one to me that like was inescapable. It was on the radio all the time. It was her first to chart so bigly ah bigly hugely so so much 

Yeah

and The aesthetic again, we like see her morphing into this aesthetic that she has now 

Yeah

where she's wearing these like high feminine outfits She's wearing fucking like six inch heels while she's in a gym with guys

mhmm 

and it has her sense of humor I also watching this video was like I wonder if Jess is enjoying this or not because there's so much gore 

Hmm. It is gorey, but in such like a campy, playful way that it's not like dark and gross.

So when the blood splattered on her face, you were okay?

Yeah, it was.

Okay. I wasn't sure.

I was. I was. I also loved her black poofy outfit that she wears. I was in love with that.

Oh, the, like, baby doll dress 

Yeah

that very clearly is not covering her ass.

Yeah. Yeah.

It also like is giving shower loofah but make it hot.

Yeah, I like that it opens up on a casket that says RIP bitches. Right now is probably the best time to mention also so that this music video is the music video that was filmed at the Blessed Version Mary Church in Brooklyn. It also is the music video that is credited for getting Mayor Adams indicted. It's very complicated-ish, but not really, but essentially the fundraiser of the church, Jamie Gigantelio, who was fired from or demoted after this video was released because of backlash of the scenes that were filmed in the church. He was linked to Frank Caron, which then caused federal investigators to kind of look in more, and it all kind of linked Mayor Adams, which led to his indictment of briber bribery, fraud, and conspiracy.

He's still the mayor, just FYI

Yeah

but like, you know, that's not the only con that's in position.

Yeah, that's why he didn't say former.

He's currently the mayor.

Yeah, even though he got indicted like a year ago. and like I know this was a big deal because, the you know, the people involved in the church approved it, but then the Catholic church at large saw it and was like, So a music video where people are getting murdered that's not okay.

yep 

Like it was specifically the content of the video, not just the fact that it was a video. It was that it was murderous and sexual.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, they're the Catholic Church. All churches are out here looking for those heavy nonprofit donations wherever they can get it. You know, they're not going to say no to an event or music video being filmed there because that filming money is big money. But yes, the content.

And then, yeah, she did reference this on tour at MSG when shortly after it happened.

Yeah, yeah. And she said, damn, what now? Should we talk about how I got the mayor indicted? I just think is, I don't know, it just plays into like, just like how, how fun she is. She's funny in her songwriting. She's funny in the way she presents herself on stage. She really is just like interactive with everything that's going on in her life, whether that thing is like very positive or very negative. And I enjoy that.

I also just think that it's really funny that the journalist involved made that connection because we knew that the church was upset and like suing her about the video for misrepresenting what it was or something. I don't know that that ever went through. And we also knew that Mayor Adams was under investigation and we knew both of those things individually for months and then he got indicted and then there was that like piece that came out that was like he got indicted through an investigation that stemmed from her video 

Yep

and just like A plus journalism baby, thank you for connecting the dots.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Getting into some accolades for the album at large, not just the singles. Emails I can't send debuted and peaked at 23 on the Billboard 200, which is her highest chart to date. She peaked number 9 in Argentina, 19 in the Netherlands, 24 in Ireland, and 27 in Australia and New Zealand. I think this is big because you really, if you listen to our last episode, she had some songs chart, some of her early stuff charted, but this really is now worldwide. She's continuing to chart. She really is blowing up. The album went platinum in Brazil and New Zealand and gold in the UK and the US. She won Variety's Hitmakers Rising Star Award, BMI's Pop Awards for Most Performed Song of the Year, and the Gold Derby Music Awards Best New Artist. The album also was listed on Billboard's 50 Best Albums of 2022. their staff list at number 19, and it was listed on Rolling Stone's 100 Best Albums of 2022 at number 44.

Yeah, poppin' off.

literally popping off. She toured in September of 2022, so just following up this album on the Emails I Can't Send tour, which is her fourth concert tour. And then a second leg was added after the success of the first leg in spring of 23, where she toured in the US, but also in South America, Europe, and Asia. This also is around the time, I would say this kind of blends into the next album, but we put it here, but this is also around the time that she's opening for Taylor Swift, at The Eras Tour, for Latin America, Australia, and the Singapore Legs of the Eras Tour.

they overlap, I think her tour and Taylor's tour, and also her songwriting of the next album, because I know like, well, I'll mention it later. But yeah, it all overlaps.

Yeah, I was gonna say I think it all kind of blends in this like end of 2022-2023 time period where kind of everything is happening at once. This is also around the time that Sabrina is becoming a lot more open about speaking about how she feels disconnected from her prior music before this album and how she really, really felt this huge shift in who she was as an artist post pandemic. And that kind of leads to a lot of this disconnection from her previous four albums compared to now.

Yeah, and you can hear it. You can hear it.

Yeah.

like She changed labels, yes, but she also substantially changed sound. 

She also turned from 18 to 21, which is a huge growth period in someone's life. like You grow a lot over those three years. So to feel disconnected from who you were at 15, 16, 17, now as a 21-year-old, makes complete sense. I think most of us would say we feel disconnected to who that person was And we weren't creating art that is like living out in the public.

And this is the longest gap I think that she's ever taken between albums 

Yes

is between Singular Act 2 and emails I can't send

Yes

I think that time can be quite vital for any artist to really assess what kind of music you want to create versus just cranking it out and following the formula you've been doing for the last few albums.

Mhmm

And you know, the pandemic, we were all home, we all had time. And a lot of artists were like, I'ma set up a home studio and figure it out.

yeah yeah Getting into a few more things going on in Sabrina's life at this time. Already mentioned, but just going to touch on the timeline a little bit more. We know that Sabrina Carpenter and Joshua Bassett dated summer of 2020 through some time in 2021. The kind of timeline is rough there because they weren't super, super public about their relationship. In Because I Liked a Boy, Sabrina references that by the time the situation went down, which would have been January of 2022 when driver's license was released

2022? Not 2021?

2021 by January of 2021, by the time Driver's License was released, that because of her lyric, they had already broken up. You could assume that the relationship really was summer, fall of 2020. However, if you deep dive into some blog posts and some journalism like I did. There was multiple spottings and sightings of them out on dates, supporting each other's careers, appearing in each other's music videos throughout summer of 2021. So who's to say when the relationship really ended, but it was about a year or so roughly that they were together.

if you know the Sharkboy and Lavagirl Halloween costume. Iconic.

Mhmm I almost wrote that in down, but I was like, is that iconic?

It is, it is. And like, I've seen people be like, man, this would have been so much better. Like, if there weren't the baggage associated with this relationship, people would have talked about this way more, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. Also in her life, she moved to Manhattan's Financial District in 2021, which really like influenced a lot, influenced who she wrote with, who she collaborated with, produced with, I think really influenced a lot of like this album's trajectory and the way that it ended up is because of this move. In September of 2022, she launched her first fragrance brand, Sweet Tooth. And in November of 23, she released a Christmas EP titled Fruit Cake. Now is the fun part where we get to go into our favorite things about this album, which I am going to start out and say that I think that this album, but not think, this album is a perfect album. It's perfect. I have like no notes. It's very beautiful from beginning to end. specifically the extended version of the album is perfect. She's a genius. I did not give her enough credit. She's a folk pop queen. Like this album is a folk album. It's also a concept album, which is just like crazy for a pop artist to like gain this much mainstream popularity on a concept album. She had so much fun with this album and it shows. It's a beautiful freaking piece of art. Like so good.

The three of hers that I own that I've listened to a lot a lot are Singular Act I emails and Short n' Sweet. Singular Act one I have like a nostalgia for 

Yeah

and a love for that I know is more emotional than it is technical.

Okay.

But emails, I think, is her best album. like And I love Short n' Sweet as well. I think it's a really great album. But I was listening to both the two of them prior to this recording this morning like multiple times through. And emails, it's hard to even pick out like favorite moments because that implies least favorite moments. And it's just like so cohesive as a piece of work, like you've said. like It's a pretty perfect album. Yeah.

it's like beautifully done. Like when you listen to it all the way through, you're like, how did like, how ah just how? It's so good. And this is from someone who doesn't even really like, like top 40 pop music that much. And I think it's perfect.

to me part of what like really sticks out about emails is as we've mentioned many times she's a very vulnerable very open artist and like you said this is like showing her storytelling through it and I think it sets the tone with the very first song which is the title track emails I can't send because this album was anticipated quite heavily, right? Because she's already done skin and she's starting to get announced on the eras tour and like get a little more traction in the mainstream. So people are going to want to look at what she puts out next and they know about the relationship drama and like there's going to be stuff like that on it. And yet the very first song is inarguably and very clearly about her father's affair which to me is like so raw and so personal for that to be the first song on your album that's anticipated after your stupid relationship is, I don't know, I just think it's really brave and incredible and sets a tone of like you you're gonna get a real person through this album.

It really did. Yeah. Getting into some of her favorite songs, favorite lyrics, additional comments on the album. I really loved in vicious. She has a line that says everyone thinks you're an angel, but I'd probably use different wording. All of nonsense is perfect. No notes. But I really love where she says, I bet your house is where my other sock is. if I were to pick favorites from this album, which Amanda mentioned already, it's very hard, but if I were to pick favorites, I would say my top four are probably tornado warnings, skinny dipping, bad for business, and lonesome. Lonesome specifically because it screams dolly to me. When I listen to that song, I just hear Dolly in the best, what the influence of Dolly. I hear Sabrina, but I feel the influence of Dolly so strongly in the best way. And it makes that song really, really great.

you used a fork once turns out forks are fucking everywhere, which is the first line of how many things is The best line of any song I've ever heard in my entire life.

Yep.

It makes me laugh so much. I think about it regularly when I am not thinking about Sabrina Carpenter. When I do think about her, that song comes to mind. And like I don't even know what song it is half the time.

Mm.

I just know that line 

Yep

and I can sing it perfectly. And it's just so funny.

Yep.

It's so deeply funny.

Yeah, it's this way of like telling an authentic story. like That's a very folk storytelling tactic. like This would not be in a traditional pop song, but to mention that Forks reminds you of someone. But the way that her humor is thrown into it, you're just like, this is hilarious. like Absolutely hilarious.

Yeah, because it's a universal experience that you see something that reminds you of someone and you wish it wasn't like that. But then for it to be something as simple as a fork, and then like, of course, forks are fucking everywhere, but just be like, turns out they're like

Yeah yeah

it's just, it's so deeply funny. And it's a ballad. It's the first line of a ballad.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

I do have the question of, and you probably don't know the answer to this, but

I do. So please ask the question.

Okay, I'm so glad. My question is why are the tracks titled like this? Because half of them are capitalized like a normal song and half of them are lowercase.

Yeah, so the reason for the title of the album is also stylized all lowercase emails I can't send all lowercase. And then as Amanda mentioned, half the songs also have that stylization. The other half are just written like normal song titles. And she wanted to capture the feeling of when you are writing a chaotic draft email, when you have all these emotions and all these thoughts and you don't have time for punctuation. And so you're just writing as fast as you can. And so that is why the songs are titled that way.

But then why are some capitalized? Because sometimes you capitalize.

Yeah, I think that's like, yeah, like she wanted it to feel chaotic. Like when you go into your draft emails and some look a little more formalized and some of your drafts are a little more just like in the moment you wrote them and other ones have more structure, like she wanted it to look like that.

Okay. I think my favorite tracks are fast times, skinny dipping, Vicious, I never think when it starts that I'm going to really love it

It's good 

but then when she gets to the bridge, it sounds so guttural that it really gets to me. I do love emails I can't send because I do have daddy issues. I also really like tornado warnings and already over. I think that they're very funny.

Yeah.

And in terms of other favorite lines, I mean, I'm a homewrecker I'm a slut is a great fucking line.

especially followed by I got death threats filling up semi trucks, like just a combination of all of that together. Is just perfect.

That's, of course, in because I liked a boy. In emails, When she makes it very clear what that song is about, is she says, I blame you for all the bad things I assume. When I'm 45, someone calls me his wife and he fucks our lives in one single night and don't think I'll find forgiveness as fast as Mom did.

Yeah.

that's like That's just a real experience.

Yep.

That's just, she just was wrote down, like that's a journal entry.

Yep. It's heavy.

On a very different note, very different note, she starts out vicious with not a lyric. She just like laughs and says, hi I mean, as they say in Chicago, he had it coming.

He had it coming

And I have to say, I have listened to this album so many times. And I saw Chicago the movie musical as a kid. And I know the the songs from Chicago. we You were part of the performance of it at our high school probably when we did Chicago while we were there. I know the songs. However, it wasn't until I went and saw Chicago on Broadway for my birthday two years ago that I was like, that's why she says it. I thought she was referring to the city.

Oh No, you didn't realize?

no, I was so confused. Every time I heard that I was like, is this like a thing they say in Chicago, like the city? What is her connection to Chicago?

Oh, that's hilarious. It's very dumb, but i like I like that it took you seeing it on Broadway to have that realization.

Having listened to this album dozens of times by that point. And also just I want to point out that not only is this album to me a shift in her songwriting, but also in her singing style, which is something I find really interesting like the way that her sound matured from her Hollywood albums is not only like how she writes, but how she sings because We know she has that deep voice like we said a lot of her music early on was inspired by Christina Aguilera who has that deep voice and she can belt and she did a lot of belting in her early stuff but she switches into more of a head voice in a lot of her music in emails and then that continues heavily into Short n' Sweet where you almost never hear her chest voice. interesting choice to me. It kind of reminds me of like Billie Eillish, who like we all know can sing, but chooses tonally and and aesthetically to sing in her head voice.

I want to believe it was influenced by the switch and people that she was collaborating with songwriting, but also production that probably influenced some of that switch too.

Yeah, and it sounds better with the folksy like acoustic guitars and stuff like that.

Last thing on this album before we get to Short n' Sweet, I know this was a long one, but we had so much to cover and we're gonna have even more to cover for Short n' Sweet. Iconic moments, we already touched on it, but every single nonsense outro, it blew up on TikTok. It is part of the reason she had this rise to stardom is because this was truly a viral moment on her emails I can't send to her doing the different outros every single night.

she has said, I don't know how accurate it is in interviews that she just was like performing in Boston and was like, this would be a funny thing to do for Boston. And then Boston enjoyed it so much that she was like, maybe I'll try it in Chicago. And then it just became like a thing that was anticipated every every night. And to the point where she had been on tour for like a year doing these outros and then performed on her birthday in New York and was like her outro was something like, it's my birthday, so I don't have to write an outro.

Yeah.

And I appreciate that for the BBC, when she performed in their live lounge, and she did something like, BBC I gotta keep it classy, BBC I want it in me, something like that.

Oh my god.

And they didn't know at the time what that meant, I guess, and so they did end up removing the video when they learned.

Oh god, okay, that's funny.

Yeah, it's an innuendo. If you know, you know.

That's funny

You probably know.

Getting into Short n' Sweet, her most recent album. It'll be a Short and Sweet album, but not discussion because Baby So Much Has Happened it was released August 23rd, 2024 on Island Records again. 12 tracks and a Short n' Sweet runtime of 36 minutes and 15 seconds. I appreciate that this woman that knows how to write a concise song. I used to believe that a true song doesn't exist under three minutes. I no longer agree with that, but I do think that this is a very short album. Production and songwriting, Julian Bonetta, John Ryan, Ian Kirkpatrick, and Jack Antonoff, and I'd say Jack Antonoff is like the one that people associate the most with the songwriting process or has been more publicized, but that's also probably just because he's the name that everyone knows. All songs were co-written by Sabrina Carpenter, and we also have Amy Allen, Julia Michaels, John Ryan, and a couple of the other names that we've already mentioned. As said, the vibes now, we're getting almost country, we're getting folksy, we have a little bit of like, disco and 90s R&B influences. the album title is like a play on herself being Short and Sweet. She's only five feet tall, but mostly on the album being Short n' Sweet and it being influenced by all of her shortest relationships or she said the relationships that influenced it happened to be some of the shortest she had yet the biggest impact on her dating life. getting into lead singles, you know it. You might love it. You might hate it by now. It's espresso. Espresso came out April 11th, 2024, and just like immediately taught the Billboard Global 200, peaked number three on the Billboard Hot 100, and number one in various countries. Like it is inescapable. The music video is

Literally inescapable. It was everywhere.

Still

Yeah

the music video is directed by Dave Myers and in it, she's like, this is her first, I'd say the other one's like, well, maybe Feather was her first like real storytelling video, but this one felt even more cohesive where It has this like vintage filter over it and everyone's in like vintage clothing and she's at a lake and first off she's in a boat with a man who she like flings off the boat so he dies but she gets his wallet and then the whole video she's just like treating her and her friends to like massages and shopping and fun treatments at the lakeside until she gets arrested. which then like when she gets arrested she very clearly doesn't care and you hear the first two seconds of her next single playing so that's why I said she does this twice with like one single that's gonna lead into another one. I gotta say it's a very fun video but there is a bridge over this lake and I don't think that I want to swim in a lake that has a bridge over it with like cars that drive on it. That just feels like way too polluted to me.

To me, I would prefer to swim in the lake. over driving on the bridge that goes over the lake

Well, yes, I know that, but this is not a drive or swim. This is a swim or not to swim.

Yeah, probably not. Well, I love a lake.

I love a lake too but if there's cars driving over it

Yeah, it kind of makes it feel like not a lake. 

people throw shit out their windows.

Yeah

Yeah. Also, this song just always makes me think of this clip of Adele. Have you seen the clip, Jess?

Yes, yes.

Where she was it was like near the end of her residency I think because she that ended like in the fall Or she is talking about like what she's been listening to lately and she said she loves this song and she was like I just I'm working late because I'm a singer I just The way she does it is so good

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you like espresso

I, yeah, I really like it a lot actually. I don't think I'm one of those people that find it annoying because I think it's hilarious. All the lyrics are hilarious.

Mm hmm.

I love that her label allowed her to write some of the silly dumb things that she wrote in the song and that it became a single and that they just trusted her that it would be a huge hit because it was.

A huge, huge hit as I will get into later. Yes, I love in her Zane Lowe interview, which she's done a great job of like not doing a huge, huge amount of press. Obviously, she's been busy. She's been on tours and stuff like that. But in her Zane Lowe interview on Short n' Sweet, they talk about this song. They talk about all the songs on this album. And they refer to this as like just a dumb little song, just a stupid little song and how like, you know, he appreciates music. He's like some stupid little songs are some of my favorites and That's how she feels about it. The It's just like her stupid little song. And the line, that's that me espresso. People were like, you should have said that's that blonde espresso. And she's like, that but that's not the song. it's That's that me espresso, because it's funny.

Yeah, yeah.

But she did get to a point where she felt like she couldn't order espresso at cafes.

Because people would sing it to her?

It just, I think she felt like it was too much. It was is too much association.

Okay.

Or she was like, or she would see espresso on a sign and be like, you're welcome. Like, like she owns espresso now.

that's funny.

Her second single that espresso led into is Please, Please, Please. My goodness, the Dolly influence coming out heavy.

Mmhmm.
 
It was released on June 6th, 2024 with a music video directed by Bardia Zanali and was a sequel to Espresso. You heard do do did do do do the first, but yeah it's not exactly that, but it's like that. Play from the cop car at the end of Espresso, peaked number one on the Hot 100. And it was the hard launch, essentially confirmation of a relationship that we already knew about with Irish actor, Barry Keoghan. Or Keoghan, however you want to pronounce it, I think it's probably like Keegan, cause he's Irish, but just like, no one really knows, okay?

That's also the takeaway I got. Because everyone pronounces it, no one pronounces it the same. And I'm like, this isn't helpful.

I've heard Kogan, I think that's wrong. I've heard Keoghan in like people giving interviews with him and he's not correcting them, but I think I've also heard Keegan and I i just think it's Keegan because that's a like that's a name.

Yeah

like i knew I had a crush on a kid named Keegan in fifth grade. It wasn't spelled that way, but that's because we're American and we bastardize everything. The video is Sabrina getting bailed out of jail. post espresso and she sees Barry getting arrested and is like, he's a little bit of me. thus starts this Bonnie and Clyde relationship where she is visiting him, she gets him out of jail and they have a little life of crime until at the end she ties him up and duct tapes his mouth and gives it a kiss. And in an interview, she once said, we were so lucky to get Barry as if he's just an actor, which I just think is really funny.

Yeah, they were kind of like that about their entire relationship the entire time, which I think is funny. Also tells you, I don't know, I think it's interesting.

I love this video and I thought I remember when this came out I thought this was like kind of a crazy departure or I was surprised by it I was very surprised by it because espresso is such a top 40 pop song and please please please is so folksy like she sings almost with a twang it was a sound I hadn't heard from her before because obviously the album wasn't out yet. It felt like a ballsy shift lyric like in songwriting styles in addition to the relationship part, but also obviously it had a lot of hype for the relationship part.

I also think it was a smart release as a second single because Right, you have all her fans that have been her fans from the beginning, and at this point, they're probably going to continue to stick with her regardless of what comes out. But she developed a very large fan base with emails I can't send. And I feel like Espresso was a slight, in songwriting style, very similar. But in how poppy it is and upbeat, it's a slight departure from emails I can't send. So then to pull in the please, please, please, which has those folksy elements, was I think a very smart move to connect people to like, okay, this album's not gonna be a complete departure from the previous. There are still going to be these elements that you really enjoyed that I also will incorporate into this album. Look, here you go.

I also think it's really smart placement of the three singles of Short n' Sweet because the first one is very poppy top 40 and then it's like anything that's that big they're gonna listen to what comes after and please please please having the hype with her relationship and having the hype from espresso even though sonically it wasn't top 40 it was still gonna be a top 40 song

Yep.

because everyone was watching her. And then taste goes back to it's like a blend of the two styles almost like it's more mainstream sounding but still has some like acoustic vibes in it. So it's like a beautiful bridge. I also just have to say like we'll get a little bit more into the relationship later. But when this song came out, I thought it was fucking crazy. And so ballsy as hell to put your boyfriend in a music video your unconfirmed but everyone knows it boyfriend in your music video where the song is about how people think that you're probably gonna fuck around and cheat on me don't prove them right like don't embarrass me i was like that's ballsy as hell to be doing that and so vulnerable and then also then when now that the relationship's over and like he cheated on her when that came out i was like okay it's not as ballsy to put him in the video for that song which also is clearly written about him but that it's ballzier to be that guy and then also prove them right like

Yeah

that's that that's not embarrassing for her that's embarrassing for you sir 

For him yeah

the bar was on the floor yeah

Yeah. And you somehow went below it.

Yeah Limbo Master.

Yeah.

Oh my god. Third single, Taste, as I mentioned, released alongside the album at the same time, August 23rd, 2024. The music video directed by Dave Myers and features the beautiful, incredible Jenna Ortega, who also stands around five feet tall. debuted at number two on the Hot 100 while please, please, please debuted at number three and Espresso at number four. 

So no, please, please, please debut at number one. So at the same time, on the Hot 100, she had the number two spot, the number three spot, and the number four spot, which made her the first artist since the Beatles 

Mhmm

to have three top five hits during the same week

Yes

which is crazy that she beat a Beatles stat.

Or met, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I guess not beat, but yes, matched a Beatles stat.

Yeah, because you would think Taylor would have done that at some point.

You would think, but I don't think, I'm like, I don't know her career in terms of single releases, because really doing those back-to-back single releases is what gets you this, and I just feel like Taylor doesn't really do that.

I mean, there's still months in between

Yeah

There's two months between. Yeah, two months between Espresso and Please Please Please, and then two months between Please Please Please and Taste.

yeah

So Espresso had been out for a while, came out in April, and this is August. It's still not a long time, but yeah. it It is very impressive. And the music video is a parody of Death Becomes Her, and maybe also other things. I haven't seen Death Becomes Her. I get the impression that I need to see it. It's a Meryl Streep movie. I think Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn. basically Sabrina is trying to kill Jenna Ortega who is currently with a man who it is implied Sabrina used to be with 

Uh huh

and it is very gory and I also suspected you might hate this one.

Sabrina's constantly trying to kill Jenna and then Jenna's constantly having the upper hand and then eventually they kiss and then Jenna accidentally kills the man instead and then they bond. It's great. It's very gory and it's very camp.

It's very camp. I appreciated how camp it was. It's just, yeah, it's fun. It's fun. It's fun use of like bringing in a star like Jenna. Also, I think the greenest matches bringing in Jenna to do this.

yeah Yeah, bringing in the reigning Scream Queen, newly minted. 

Yeah

Also, Jenna and Sabrina are arguably the two biggest Disney stars now, like post-Disney stars, and they were on at the same time, so they've known each other through each other's entire careers basically, which I think is like an extra fun element to that part of the video and then them also just both being like small.

Yeah.

And to be like you have this huge video of your rumored relationship and then two months later you're like, but I'm making out with my friend.

Yeah.

And so you get the people talking again.

Yep. She's smart. She is smart.

She's smart. Her new team at Island is smart. like 

Mhmm

So much thought and consideration has gone into every part of her career 

Yeah

at this point for these albums. So accolades for Short n' Sweet topped the record charts in 18 countries, including Australia, France, the UK, and the US, debuted at number one on the US Billboard 200 chart, which is her first number one, and top 10 album to date. Second longest running number one of the year after Taylor Swift, the year being 2024. It was certified platinum in the US, Poland and Canada, and gold in New Zealand and the UK. Every time we read this, I have to wonder like how many sales make platinum in New Zealand, like 2000?

I think New Zealand's a little higher than that, but yeah, some of the countries like the Czech Republics and things like that, it's like pretty small in order to make platinum Especially because it shifted to Like what platinum was when we were talking about Demi Lovato in the peak of album sales versus now we're streaming is more popular. The number that you need to meet to hit platinum is like significantly less.

She also became the first artist in 71 years to spend 20 weeks atop the UK Singles Chart in a calendar year, with taste becoming the longest running UK number one of 2024.

Which is interesting that it was taste and not espresso.

I know, which will also will be further down here but Oh, I put a note in the wrong place. That's fine. All 12 songs, all 12 songs placed on the US Hot 100 chart. Like, it came out and all 12 songs were on the charts. It was crazy. I remember when that happened. And like, that was nuts.

It's yeah, that is wild to me as a stat. We didn't do further research and see like how many I'm sure like the Taylor Swift things like that Beyonce probably when she releases her albums all songs on the albums are on the Billboard Hot 100 but like that's Taylor Swift and Beyonce that we're talking about. For Sabrina Carpenter to release an album and all songs on the album to chart

I don't even think that Taylor's are. like I think probably like half to two thirds.

Yeah.

But then there's always those songs that don't. And Beyonce, I could see it happening with like Lemonade because it was a visual album. But it's really rare to have all of the songs. And I think part of it is that they're short.

Yeah.

They are short. Espresso won the Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Award for Favorite Viral Song and the UK Official Chart Award for number one song went to both Espresso and Please Please Please. Espresso, which came out in April, was streamed 1.6 billion times on Spotify

Uh huh 

in 2024, which is more than any other song in 2024

This checks out 

It is the most streamed song on Spotify worldwide in 2024. and it makes sense because it's so, like we've heard it so many times and we're still not even mad about it.

No, I still put it on sometimes because I'm like, it's just a bop. It's so good.

And also this is her first album to get Grammy nominations. She got six, including all four of the main categories, which she's only one of 15 artists to get nominated in all four of the main categories. Six, including Best New Artist, which is very controversial. And Espresso was MTV's song of the year. that's a million accolades. The significance in Sabrina's career and growth, I mean, this kind of goes into the accolades. She's being recognized by all of the recording industries, by her peers. She went on her Short n' Sweet tour, which was her first arena tour, which sold out super fast. She also wrote half of the album in France in like a week, which she said she had always wanted to write in France. And this is part of why I know the tours and the writing and stuff overlapped is that she said she was like going. She went on one. She was on a tour, just got off, had one week off, went to France, did a bunch of writing with Jack Antonoff. And then after that week went right back on tour. So she was like, I had no life like

break yeah wow

and no sense of where home was or calm or anything.

Yeah. To then go be like, and that's how in that time where life was crazy and the rest of us were just like, potato and do nothing. I went and wrote a hit album like what?

And that's where she wrote espresso and a few other songs.

Crazy.

And it wasn't even like Paris. She just like went to a small country town and got a home and wrote for a week. Yeah. Obviously, it's like I just have to say in her significance, like it's the first album after becoming a household name. And it ushers in this iconic vintage style that she has an aesthetic that she's carried out on tour. I don't know if this goes in the album or the career or in her life, but I just also need to note that in December, on December 6th of 2024, she came out with a nonsense Christmas, which is, I didn't think it was from the fruitcake EP, but it is.

I told you, if you didn't believe me. 

I know

That's not true. you did It's not that Amanda didn't believe me. She just was like, are you sure? And I, in that moment, was not sure. 

Yeah

So I was like, no, I'm not sure, but I think it's fruitcake.

Neither of us were sure, Jess, and I'm owning up now to the errors of my misunderstanding, okay?

I was right. Okay.

You are. And in this special, which I've seen most of now because I was watching while I got ready this morning

Is it worth the watch?

It's fine.

Okay.

I wasn't paying that much attention. Tyla, Chappel Roan, Shania Twain, and also lots of other people were in it, but like those were the main ones that stuck out to me. She also performed with Christina Aguilera during a special for What a Girl Wants's 20th anniversary or 25th in the same year so like So she's blowing up and she's with everyone and it's crazy. Her little Disney like...to people like you. It's like, oh, here's this new artist. But to people like me, it's like she was in my pocket. 

Mhmm

And now I'm not even in her pocket.

Mm hmm.

Like, she's become so big and she was just a little Disney star. And it's kind of crazy to me because she when she was on Disney, it was not like she was Hilary Duff. It's not like people were listening to her music. 

No

Just a few of us were.

Yeah and it's one of those things where I wonder like how you feel in a lot of her fans who've like stayed with her from the beginning feel, do you like that? Are you proud of her? Because as someone who listens to a lot of skier, smaller artists, I have seen artists grow from like, I'm literally in a venue that is max capacity 100 people and there's 15 people there to three years later, they're selling out like a 10,000 capacity venue and I'm like, Oh my God, you're a little baby three years ago. Look at you now. And I always have mixed feelings. I'm always like, I love this for the artists, but also like they were my baby and now they not to my baby anymore. And it makes me just, I don't know, like almost long for when they were small. And I wonder if like someone like a Disney artist, if you also feel that way with because she wasn't huge, like a Hilary Duff or a Demi or something like that.

I don't think I have that feeling with her

Okay 

but I know a lot of fans do.

Yeah 

I know when she blew up, there was a lot of stuff on Twitter about like fan gatekeeping kind of

Yeah 

of like you think you're a Sabrina fan, but you weren't here for thumbs or whatever. They'll bring up her old songs and be like

yeah which Honestly, none of us needed to be there for thumbs.

no no or they'll bring up sue me or they'll bring up something even older eyes wide open I'm not here for like the gatekeeping mostly i'm proud of her i also think that I would have probably gone to the Singular Tour had I been in the US at that time, but her sound has matured so much in these two albums that like I like her more as an artist now.

Yeah

So I don't mind the blowing up like because it just makes sense.

Yeah.

I think like you can see the trajectory of her career so much through her music.

Yeah.

See, hear, whatever.

Both!

Yes, both actually.

Yeah, yeah.

but it's been very interesting to watch nonetheless. Some of the things that were going on in Sabrina's life that inspired this album, man, we've been talking about it. ah Well, briefly before the Barry Keoghan thing, she dated Shawn Mendes for a few months in 2023, which inspired taste. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The actor looks kind of like him. and Jenna Ortega looks like Camila Cabello and it's very clearly a song about a guy going back to his ex and there's a couple songs on the album that are very clearly about them and I would be but her too. And then also she dated Barry Keoghan. They started dating in December of 2023. It was rumored they were together or like I remember really when she was performing at Coachella in March and he had like a bandana over his face, but was like hyping her up that people were like, okay, so they're together. And then they moved in together in May and the Met Gala was on May 6th and they did like a couple's outfit, but they didn't walk together. But then they did a little like Vogue getting ready video where he peaked in because he was the Mad Hatter and she was Alice in Wonderland. And then Please, Please, Please came out in June, which like fully confirmed it. And then in December of 2024, they broke up after ah cheating rumors with a TikToker that looks like her who at first was like reposting all the videos saying that he cheated with her and then was like he didn't cheat with me and it's like girl then why did you repost all those videos 

Weird. 

Yeah

I didn't know all of that part of it. Strange.

Yeah, it's weird. She also joined Taylor Swift as an opener on some of the days of the eras tour. We've already mentioned that she was on the era store while she was writing this, which also I think influenced like her artistry and the way that she views her career, probably like, because Taylor has such like a tight control over her image and everything she does. And you can clearly see in please, please, in Short n' Sweet that like Sabrina is controlling every element of her career.

Yep.

And as mentioned ahead of this release, she played Coachella in March of 2024. And in that performance, that was also so he was there and her nonsense outro referenced Saltburn.

So good.

Have you seen Saltburn?

I've not seen Saltburn, but I understand the reference.

Made his knees so weak he had to spread mine. He's drinking my bathwater like it's red wine. Coachella see you back here when I headline. it's pretty great if you've seen Saltburn. Getting into our favorite songs and lyrics and things. I will never get over how funny Juno is Conceptually, I had to say it. It's so funny.

Yeah. like, I'm gonna keep mentioning it because her use of humor is just I don't know like I can't I'm there are other artists that use humor in the same way that she does but it just feels very unique to me in the way that she does it because this essentially is it's like I want you to knock me up but like the way that it's written lyrically and how playful it is makes it actually it's a very good song but you're like at the when you listen to the core of the lyrics you're like this is silly And she says another thing that she did in her career that's pretty big as in December of 2024, she did an NPR tiny desk or for her a normal sized desk. And she says in that tiny desk that she had recently watched Juno and was just saying that about someone like that it was a really funny way to say, I want you to knock me up. And so it became the song and I, yep, I love it. Personally, i I think my favorite songs are Lie To Girls, Bed Chem, Dumb and Poetic, and Juno, but I do really love all of them, pretty much. I love the line, don't smile because it happened, baby cry because it's over, because it's a twist on don't cry because it's over, a smile because it happened. 

Happened

She said, no, don't smile because it happened, cry because it's over.

Mhmm

Which she said actually was inspired after watching her friend go through a heartbreak and was like this this man better be suffering I also like the line just because you leave like when does it make you a man?

ah Literally, that whole song, I wrote it somewhere down here, but I can mention it now. That it line is from Dumb and Poetic.

Mm-hmm

That entire song is lyrical genius. Every single lyric. The whole thing. Because I went to try to cherry pick lyrics from that song and I was like, I can't. The whole song. The whole song is my favorite lyric.
 
I actually had a hard time in general cherry picking lyrics from this album because it's so cohesive the way she writes songs and tells stories through them that like so many lines are good and also make the most sense in context you know 

Mhmm

That song is one that Zayne picked out in their interview as being like, you really just like took the piss out of the wellness industry, didn't you? like She has a line that's like, i I promise the mushrooms aren't changing your life and he's like Geez, like I love a good trip, but come on. 

Yeah

And she's like she was like, to be fair, I don't fully hate the wellness industry. It's just, I live in LA and so many people have been like, oh my God, this changed my life. And like I'm over it.

another line from there when you brought up the mushrooms, it reminded me that I thought was very funny and I enjoyed is she goes, you're running so fast from the hearts that you're breaking save all your breath for your floor meditation, which also felt very LA, but I enjoyed it.

Yeah. 

Also just like you're so empathetic, you make a great wife, which for this like 25 year old woman to refer to a man as making a good wife, it's just so clever. It's so good.

That line simultaneously makes me uncomfortable and is incredible. 

Yeah

like It's like anti-feminist, but you know that it's not in the way that she says it.

Yes

It's really weird.

Yes, yes.

The only song that to me feels like a little out of place is Good Graces. it's a little It sounds almost like a singular track. I think it's the one that has the most 90s R&B essence to it 

Yeah

that I don't feel as much in any other song. the other line that I wrote down that I really love is from Coincidence, told me the truth minus 7%, because it's so like accurate to when communication relationships communication in relationships is falling apart and you're like, well, I mostly told them the truth. I just like left out this little part.

yeah Yeah, it is so true. I don't love that the album started with two singles back to back. I feel like they could have changed the track order. I think that when you're listening to an album for the first time, you should be hit with something new that you haven't heard yet when it's the two singles that you've already heard I feel I don't know for me it takes me out of the album I don't know why maybe that's a solo experience but it's not my favorite choice we already touched on this but please please please has that folky pop vibe that I love In addition to Please, Please, Please, my favorite, I wouldn't say Please, Please, Please is one of my favorites off the album, though I do really like it a lot. But my favorites on the album are definitely Sharpest Tool, Slim Pickens, Lie to Girl is what I wrote, but I think it's Lie to Girls.

It is 

okay, I was like, that's not right. And Dumb and Poetic.

All of Slim Pickings is good. It came off the idea of the saying there's too many What is it? So many fish in the sea. It came off that saying where she was like, no, actually there's not. Like, that's not true. A lyric we just had a shout out, not saying it's one of my favorites, but definitely very iconic to Sabrina is since the good ones call their ex wasted and the good Lord forgot my gay awakening.

Yeah, which has been a controversial line.

Why?

because before this album came out, like a few months before this album came out a podcast of two lesbians, I forget exactly what it's called, they were like, name a female celebrity that is straighter, like the straightest female celebrity you can think of, Sabrina Carpenter. And they like went off and people were like in the comments like, no, absolutely not. Like, have you heard of Rowbrina? Have you seen this clip of her being like, we appreciate the male and female gender? Like,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She's had so many moments where like she probably is bi or something. And then she put this song, since the good the Lord Forgot My Gay Awakening. And people were like, wait, no. Is she actually straight? like That's devastating. Or does she just mean that like she hasn't met a woman that she's liked yet?

Yeah.

Also, because this album came out the same day as Taste, where she's making out with the woman. So it's like very confusing.

Yep, yep. I kind of love it though.

I do as well. 

In lie to girls, she has a line that says, I can make a shit show look a lot like forever

Yes

which is great.

Hard relate.

yeah, yeah, yeah. My only thing with this album when I first listened to it all the way through, well for this podcast I had listened to it when it came out, but then when prepping for this podcast when I listened to it again, I didn't love the ending of Don't Smile. I re-listened to the album last night and again this morning.

Mm.

I kind of backtrack that. I understand. I also think the main like chorus and line of that song being, don't smile because it happened, cry because it's over at the end of an album is a very playful choice. However, I still do think it's my, if I had to say a song I don't like on the album, that probably would be the song. I don't love it that much.

Oh, I get it as an album closer because it is low tempo and the album's over and the relationship's over.

Yeah, that's why in my re-listening, I was like, okay, I actually think this was a pointed choice to put it at the end because of the lyrics and kind of the story that album's telling of short relationships. I was like, I get it. Still not my favorite song. And still not my favorite choice. I don't love a slow end to an album. It makes me want, I don't know, I want that album to like punch me at the end, I think.

Oh, I like a slow end to an album, I think. It feels like I'm closing a chapter. 

Yeah, yeah, it does, it does.

iconic moments. I mean so many

All of them 

like literally so many every music video, like, so many interviews, so many things, it's too many to put down And I'm too lazy because like you, you know, already, like if you're, if you're watching this, particularly in the Lord's year of 2025, then you know. But I do want to just point out the VMAs performance where she did like a medley of please, please, please taste and espresso with aliens and astronauts. And it was like a nod to Britney Spears and she kisses a female alien in there. Iconic for so many reasons, like kind of crazy. Mostly the kissing the female alien was like the iconic part. I have to say there's a tear away kind of between taste and espresso where she's like she's wearing like a corset with like a little panel that goes from the top of the corset to her neck and then she tears it off so that she's just wearing like the bodice for espresso and it's like the most unserious tear away I've ever seen in my life as someone who watches drag race and now like people do tearaways for like whole outfits change I was just like what is the point of this little piece of fabric 

Yeah, like this is silly.

it's so stupid like I want to cry now because it's so stupid 

Yeah, yeah, that's funny.

also like her her tour looks are iconic and I kind of want to put in summation of Short n' Sweet. We've mentioned the Dolly influence. of the the songwriting and the singing and you can hear that and i'm sure there's other influences as well that i just don't have the musical knowledge to name but i think also her image and aesthetic has become more like that like she's become so over the top visually. an iconic moment for jess and i is the snl song that oh my god i don't remember her name but

I can get it. It's like Jen will, hold on. I can get it really quick. It's like Jen Wilkin I want to say, but let me, yes, Jen Wilkin.
 
Yeah, so an iconic moment for Jess and I is Jen Wilkins' song on the um news report of SNL where she is singing as Sabrina, not in the style, not dressed as her, but is singing a song as Sabrina Carpenter about how no one ever assumes that she's bi or queerbaiting or like gay or could be gay or or any of that and like hell like Taylor Swift Ariana Grande all these female pop stars get like harassed for queerbaiting get all these rumors and it's like I am NOT gay and I'm not pretending that I might be but I just want you to think that I could be and why don't you like I literally made out with Jenna Ortega in a video 

And it's like one of the main lines is like, why don't you think I have secrets? I want to have secrets or something along that.

I want to have Mystique.

Yes, if you love Sabrina Carpenter, if you're listening to us and have made it to this point, and you have not seen that SNL skit after we finish, because we are in our wrapping up-ish part of the episode, please go listen to it. It's hilarious. I watched it three times in a row last night. Like, it's so funny.

I come back to it like weekly when I just need to a giggle. 

It's so good.

Like even the non-Sabrina lines are are perfect and incredible. it got me thinking a little bit of like why that happens and also the stuff with the the lesbians saying that she's straight. And I think this comes down to, I'm wrapping it up into what I was saying before. I promise the ADHD does have a point into the Dolly Parton aesthetic of it all of like she's now got the big hair and the corsets and like the way that she is presenting herself is a pin-up male gaze of the 50s to 70s style. but she's doing it as like a parody almost as drag it's clearly for the girls but i think the way that it's done like to the mainstream feels so straight and male gay centric and that to me is very very smart

It's also very dolly.

Yes, that's why I brought it up. 

Yeah

It reminds me of that interview of Dolly early on with Barbara Walters, who's very clearly judging her and is like, you know, you don't have to look ridiculous. Like you don't have to do all of this, right? And she's like, yeah, I know I don't have to, but I am kind of a clown. like That's kind of what performers are. And in order to get people to listen to music, sometimes you got to have big hair and big makeup. And I like it i like looking like this. And she like is like a living drag queen kind of. And this I feel like Sabrina has a similar vibe to her performance. It's just more Polished to where people perceive it as straight if you don't understand that it's a parody or kind of camp then you don't you wouldn't question it 

Mhmm mhmm 

Do you have any other thoughts before we wrap it all up?

briefly touched on it, but again, if you're a Sabrina fan and have not seen it, go watch the SNL clip, but also go watch Tiny Desk. I know I've talked about fucking Tiny Desk before. I fuck hard with the Tiny Desk. I love Tiny Desk. Sabrina's Tiny Desk came out not that long ago, maybe like two or three weeks ago as of recording this. It's perfection. The arrangements for every single song has been changed. She has like 14 people backing her all with acoustic instruments. It's absolutely beautiful from beginning to end. I made my husband watch it with me and he's like, what are we watching? And after two songs in he was like, wow, she's so talented. This is amazing. And he sat and watched the whole thing with me. It's incredible.

Also what I love about it is that she is very talented, but it's showcasing her whole group more than anything. like The new arrangements are to showcase like the instrumentation more than the vocals, I think.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

yeah Which to me is like a sign of a really good artist, is that you want the music to shine, not just you.

Also, not necessary to give the update, but in case anyone's curious, concerned, who do we stan in this house? We love Sabrina. We love Olivia. We blame no one. And as of the last like six months, they follow each other on Instagram. 

Oh yeah 

So no one cares anymore, guys.

Yeah, it's true though. Before we get into what's up next and our outro, we're gonna do a little game. We're gonna do a few rounds of pick three, keep one. Amanda and I both came up with a few. Do you want to start or would you like me to start?

I would like you to start.

Okay, I am gonna kick it off with what I think might be one of the harder ones. We are gonna go big with singles. Feather, espresso, nonsense.

I get to pick one.

Yeah, you do.

I can't believe that I'm about to say this, but my gut says feather.

Oh, interesting. Okay, I think I would go nonsense, but feather probably, ah, but espresso.

My brain says nonsense because it's fun and it changes every single time, but my my gut says feather. I think it's the most the most enjoyable for me to listen to over and over again.

okay. Eyes wide open, singular act two or Short n' Sweet albums.

Albums. I have to say just for like, where she is as a star, I have to say Short n' Sweet. But I do think singular act two brought us there. So it's like, would we have Short n' Sweet without that? No, but if I had to pick one, I would say Short n' Sweet.

This makes sense.

yeah.

This is what I would expect you to say, but I knew you really liked Act Two, so.

I do. I would say it's like my favorite album obviously is emails, but it would be a really close tie between Short n' Sweet and singular act two for the second spot.

Mm-hmm.

I really like act two like a lot. I'll also go old since you went kind of, well, you mixed albums. I'm not doing my albums one yet. Um, I'm going to go older songs, white flag, eyes wide open, run and hide.

I mean, White Flag.

Yeah.

It's one of my favorite songs of hers, full stop, which we talked about in the previous episode. It confuses Jess. It confuses me as well. It's one of her first songs I ever heard, and it's one of the ones I've heard the most. I just, there's something about it I really love.

It is confusing, but it's a good song, but it is confusing that it's one of your favorites above other ones.

Maybe it's just because I'm emo?

Well, could be.

Espresso? Sue me? Or thumbs?

Oh god, espresso, espresso, espresso. Well, yeah, espresso, espresso.

Mkay

Thumbs can go like a die in a dumpster somewhere, truly.

I know initially I started with thumbs as a joke and I wanted to put other like not great ones because I think we did something like that with Demi but then like there aren't other singles that are like that bad 

No, it really is a standout.

yeah I would pick Sue me though like I love espresso and everything it's done for her career but I feel like Sue me was like the start of who Sabrina is 

We're gonna do like singles of emails I can't send-ish.

Mhmm 

Skin, skinny dipping because I like to boy.

Can I say fast times?

No, no, it's not an option on this one.

that's actually kind of harder than I expected because I initially was going to be like skin easy, but I actually do really love. It'll be a Wednesday and we'll blah blah coffee shop and...Maybe skinny dipping.

Yeah, I agree. It's the right choice. Sucks for the other two, but it's the right choice.

I want you to rank four lore drops. I know this wasn't the assignment, but this is what I want you to do.

Okay.

Rank from best to worst, the four lore drops of Bradley Steven Perry, Shawn Mendes, Joshua Bassett, and Barry Keoghan.

Which ones were Bradley about again?

Most of her first album and Smoke and Fire.

Okay. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm rating the lore. But not necessarily on like media iconicness, just on how I, Jessica, feel about them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, okay. I would rate them Shawn Joshua Barry Bradley.

Is that first to last or last to first?

You assigned me to go best to worst, so I followed.

Best to worst.

So that's what I...

Okay. So shawn you're saying Shawn is the most interesting 

Yeah

or iconic at the top.

Yep.

And then you said Barry or Josh?

Josh. 

Josh Barry Bradley.

Bradley.

Interesting.

What would you say?

I think Shawn would be my last.

Hmm. I just think without Shawn, we wouldn't have certain songs that I'm like, nope, I need those. 

also guys we're talking about the lore no credit to these men absolutely none no credit to these men 

No, no, no, no, no.

none zero zilch 

Yeah

she loves a goofy headed a goofy looking brunette and that's all we've learned from every relationship we've looked into of hers

Yep.

find yourself a woman, Sabrina, you could pull so hard.

Yeah.

I think Shawn last because it was one of the shortest relationships, though I do agree some great songs came out of it. And I also think, wow, what a mind fuck to be like the girl that he dates in between the long term girl, right?

Yeah

Like, and then go back to her. There's also a line in Short n' Sweet where she's like, the girl you said you outgrew shoot. And I'm like, Oh my god, I hope he actually said that. Because imagine being Camila Cabello and hearing that I would die.

Yeah.

and then I think Joshua Bassett at three, because it's like a pandemic relationship. And like, I don't care that much. no credit to that man. And then I think Bradley Steven Parry at two, because he recently brought her up as like, my, my first girlfriend's like one of the most famous people in the world right now. And he didn't name her, but everyone was like, Oh fuck. Yeah. You guys dated like a decade ago for like a year. And the pictures are really, and then Barry at the top because the drama.
I would like to hear from you Jess your final takeaways because I am a longer standing fan. Obviously in the process of creating this two-part series I learned a lot about Sabrina that I didn't necessarily know but I also learned that I knew a lot more than I thought so I would love to hear your takeaway after doing this deep dive and listening to all of her music and learning about her her life story.

I think my biggest takeaway is honestly truly going through all of her discography and seeing her growth as an artist that also grew alongside her rise to like mainstream stardom is that the industry in what's considered top 40 is clearly changing and that is huge. because I don't think 10 years ago a folk pop artist would be charting like she is. These last two albums are both concept albums which I think is amazing and they both charted very high on the charts so I think it's just like incredible that she can like make this very authentic art that also people want to listen to and I hope other similar artists get more mainstream stardom from it as well from this rise in people wanting to listen to this style of music also I will like just continue to listen to her Which before I was aware of her, but I wasn't really listening to her where now I'm like, no, I will go out of my way to listen to Sabrina. Like she's fantastic.

I love that. I think she's someone who you can listen to very casually or you can listen to with intent and you'll get a very different experience out of either one. And I think that that's part of the ingenuity ingenuity of her of her branding and her style. This has been fun. I'm jealous of the success and talent and intellect of a 25 year old. I'm so glad that she has achieved such success and I can't wait to see what the next 10 years of her career looks like.

yeah, it's very like she has so much left ahead of her, which is like fun.

but it's also like, where did she go from here? I wonder if she'll get back into acting more.

I hope not. I mean, I hope she does whatever she wants that's best for her. But I feel like I hope she keeps creating music that feels authentic to her and her writing style, because it's incredibly unique. And I feel like that style deserves to be listened to.

I agree. I just think it's really interesting. She said that she got into acting to make music, but then she did go so far as to executive produce a Netflix film. Not a good one. You don't need to watch it, but it's funny. And she has enjoyed acting. She's gone back and forth. I'd be curious to see her go back. But we've had both Ariana Grande and Selena Gomez, who have had huge, huge pop careers, say recently, after returning to acting, that they're probably going to make less music to varying degrees, that they love both, and they forgot about their passion of acting and stuff So I don't think Sabrina will go that direction, but I'm curious as to what she will do.

Yep, me too. And we will keep our eyes peeled for whatever comes next from her. And with that, up next in our next episode, we are gonna do Sex Lives of College Girls season three for real this time. and with that please please please go and follow us on instagram and youtube 90s babies nostalgia spell out the word nineties we're also on tiktok but use the numbers there rate and review us on spotify and apple podcasts and with that we'll see you in the next one bye

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